Matrix Games Forums

Did a couple of searches and I didn't see this mentioned by anyone:

As in the title, broken down soviet combat corps stop counting towards their respective build limits. This allows a player to break down their on-map corps, build up to the cap, and then build up the original corps to bypass the limit. It seems particularly exploitable with cavalry corps, since they're mobile, hard hitting, and lack the afv/vehicle restrictions of tank and mech corps. Early rifle corps spam would be pretty nasty as well.

This exploit is easily repeatable at the start of the Vistula to Berlin scenario: max out your cavalry corps, break down one of the on-map formations, build another, and build back up the one you broke down. Viola! You now have 11 cavalry corps with a cap of 10. Just double checked this in the most recent beta (1.02.29).

Ah, beat me to it I see. I only searched in tech support, so i wound up missing that thread.While I understand Loki's point regarding effort prioritization, I'd note that this is fairly easy to accidentally do without realizing that you've done anything wrong (break down some corps, forget about them, build up some more since you notice you have space). In that regard, I think it should be given some consideration at some point, if easily fixable.

totally agree with you

ideally all exploits should be prevented by a game and not house rules

I will add this to our list, but I don't think there's an easy fix. It may be possible that there is a not too difficult of a fix if since the divisions are marked as part of a corps. It's got to be a lower priority than some of the other issues. Until it can get looked at, I suggest players agree to try not to abuse it.

Stamb wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:52 pm totally agree with you

ideally all exploits should be prevented by a game and not house rules

+1

Joel Billings wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:29 am I will add this to our list, but I don't think there's an easy fix. It may be possible that there is a not too difficult of a fix if since the divisions are marked as part of a corps. It's got to be a lower priority than some of the other issues. Until it can get looked at, I suggest players agree to try not to abuse it.

if you are thinking about this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4#p4997844

then it will force Soviet players to micro manage even more
check my next post, in that thread (below Albert's)

Joel Billings wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:29 am I will add this to our list, but I don't think there's an easy fix. It may be possible that there is a not too difficult of a fix if since the divisions are marked as part of a corps. It's got to be a lower priority than some of the other issues. Until it can get looked at, I suggest players agree to try not to abuse it.

I suggested what at least for me it is an 'easy' fix.

Corps are worthy 3, Divisions are worthy 1.

The 'cap' is the sum of the values and not split type.

So that if the cap is 100, one can have 100 Divisions and 0 Corps, or 30 Corps and 10 Divisions, etc.
They can be juggled around but a player cannot just go over the cap.

I believe that may be relatively 'easy' to code, but I could be totally wrong there.

Another suggestion would be to not allow corps to break down.
That would be to the disadvantage of the Soviets but would cut out some extreme 'brigade' action which would not be unreasonable.

AlbertN wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 3:45 pm

Joel Billings wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:29 am I will add this to our list, but I don't think there's an easy fix. It may be possible that there is a not too difficult of a fix if since the divisions are marked as part of a corps. It's got to be a lower priority than some of the other issues. Until it can get looked at, I suggest players agree to try not to abuse it.

I suggested what at least for me it is an 'easy' fix.

Corps are worthy 3, Divisions are worthy 1.

The 'cap' is the sum of the values and not split type.

So that if the cap is 100, one can have 100 Divisions and 0 Corps, or 30 Corps and 10 Divisions, etc.
They can be juggled around but a player cannot just go over the cap.

....

The problem with this approach is its not that historically accurate. The Soviets did replace destroyed Cav Corps, they didn't replace destroyed cavalry divisions. So they are not interchangeable building blocks.

My preference is to prevent building Cav Corps (in particular) with missing component parts, that solves both parts of the problem. In effect the Soviet player ends up with 60 or so Cavalry divisions and something like 45 can be incorporated into corps or not. So this gets to your suggestion but I think its a neater solution as it works with historical practice.

You can't do this for Rifle Corps as you need to raise them as new formations once the game is into 1943 but then practically the Soviet player will never build out the limits for Rifle Corps/Divisions/Brigades.