Matrix Games Forums

mordachai wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:53 pm It would add another dimension for the AIs to struggle with, perhaps?

I could see it being a little simpler and treating it a bit light fighter-craft - where missiles and bombs have a stockpile - maybe the weapons themselves have stockpile levels - and the ability to generate munitions on the fly at some constant rate (similar to fighters being repaired / constructed).

That way you can fire at max ROF for a while, but then you slow way down due to burning through your stockpile of munitions.

There could of course be ship-systems that improve your munitions generation rates and/or stockpile limits, giving you greater staying power.

This then doesn't need as much complexity of management and reengineering the game to support, albeit it's not quite as detailed as SE5's system.

I like it conceptually, but am wary of adding yet more for the AI to handle poorly.

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Note too: one of the current advantages of missile systems in DW:2 is its low energy cost to operate. Regenerating missiles as I have described it would spike energy use costs once you burned through your stockpiles - which I don't believe this game has a way to model either.

If the regeneration is done by external components - then their static cost be highish to account for that - but again - the game as-is doesn't have a way to model when such a component should be at low energy use v. high (it's not firing like a weapon, but it follows similar rules - once the weapon needs replenishment, such an internal manufacturing system should kick on - ostensibly the second that the primary weapons begin firing and depleting their stocks rather than waiting for a near-empty condition).

All of this takes thinking - UI to help the user understand it - AI programming - etc. Cool thing to have in-game on some level, tho.

solops wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:16 pm No.
This was discussed back in DW1. The idea is bad on so, so many levels.

LoBlo wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:29 pm DW2 seems to be a game of logistics.

I used to play a lot of Space Empires 5 from Malfador Machinations and one of the logistical complexities making their game fun was "ordnance". They separated "ordnance" from supplies. Supplies were fuel consumed to power propulsion and energy weapons, ordnance were consumed when firing kinetic or missile weapons. Missiles used all ordnance and no supplies. Lasers used all supplies and no ordnance. Some weapons were in between like railguns which used less ordnance than missiles but some supplies when firing.

It was interesting to design ships based off of a balance of ship supplies to manage the distance it could travel, and ship ordnance, to manage how much fighting it could do before. Your attack strategies and ship designs interacted that way.

The selection of weapons to research was more interesting as well. Weapons likes lasers had advantages in that they did not require separate ordnance loads to be designed into the ship and the ship could fight as long as they had fuel and thus provided more logistical freedom. Weapons like missiles packed a bigger punch, but took away from the ships endurance as ordnance loads had to be designed into the ship and subtracted from its endurance.

I'm wondering if adding this type of gameplay would make DW2 even more interesting. One of the cheats I see in my strategy is that I load up battleships with torpedo launchers and fuel and send them deep into enemy systems toward their capital. When unleashed these battleship fleets shoot probably thousands of missiles and don't think anything of it since only fuel accounts from their staying-power. Its a cheat to watch these fleets conduct bombardment upon bombardment without running out of missiles.

There's a lot about the game that already needs fixing and debugging, so this would be low on the totem pole, but if anyone wants to look at that type of ordnance system in the future, just take a look at space empires 5 to see what I mean.

Cheers.

solops wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:16 pm No.
This was discussed back in DW1. The idea is bad on so, so many levels.

rxnnxs wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:37 pm Even lets say games like MOO3 had that limit. In a fight, they fire off their missiles and after that sit there as a duck.
If the enemy has good point defense or can shoot down those missiles/torps or survives that massive attack, the enemy has to flee or is shot down afterwards.

It would make even stronger missiles and torpedoes possible, by adding even more range or more damage to it, but limit it to a number.

There would not even a ammo bar needed,
just a limit of ammo for that weapon type. All launchers already would have a rack of some kind with a given storage amount.
If that is fired empty, the ship must "touch" a space port to refill that storage of come near a milk cow / resupply ship.

Lunalis wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:21 am yop that is why we dont have ammo to take care of as everything is abstracted into energy use instead.
and it works well this way.

but if people really want a ammo simulation too, i guess the best bet for it is to make a mod that adds that...

i rather have the devs work on the "missing" dw1 races and features (all the pirate stuff from dw1) than them changeing how weapons work and ammo.


personally i rather want fighter formations (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p4982971) than weapon ammo.