Matrix Games Forums

While on my vacation I was re-reading the 3rd Edition of Fleet Tactics by the late Cpt. Hughes, and several sections got me thinking about the surprising sinking of the Russian cruiser Moskva almost 2 months ago.

While it's pretty clear that sub-par crew performance was a major contributing factor to the ship's sinking, It also seems that the Ship was effectively on EMCON, with the Radars apparently not active.

I know full well the advantages of operating a ship or formation without emissions, but I can't help but think that wasn't justified in this situation.

So I want to discuss when it is and isn't good to operate your ships on EMCON, since having everything shut down can cause a surprise crippling hit.


To me, a non-professional, non- military service member, with close to 2000 total Command hours, this is my thinking:

I can't help but think that when operating in a relatively small body of water like the Northern Black Sea, during an active war against an adversary with OTH firing capabilities, isn't it too much of a risk to have your vessels on EMCON, considering that there's really not alot of relative bearings you can be located from the enemy's perspective?

With the Russians effectively controlling the coast from Sevastopol and eastward, I don't really see why one should try to electronically hide their assets when such a small area leaves few places to hide.

When operating in an environment like that, wouldn't it be better to be more Proactive with your long range defense (active radars and jammers) vs passive (EMCON)?

And on top of that, of course, are the 'Neutral' parties that are observing the operations and sympathetic to your opponent.

All good questions.

A suggestion was made somewhere that the radar was perhaps not operable and down for maintenance. I did not read any discussion of when or where the radar was operating. Presumably the parties in the region have sensor data that would tell if the radar was always off, or just during this time period. That might give a clue whether the Russian's decision to not operate was voluntary or the system simply didn't work.

Something else I have not seen reported - What has the Russian posture been since that incident? Are some/all of their vessels operating actively, or are they still maintaining EMCON?

This has been discussed in several threads in some pretty good detail. The following one also has a link to several tests and discussions.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... lit=moskva

HalfLifeExpert wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:47 am While it's pretty clear that sub-par crew performance was a major contributing factor to the ship's sinking, It also seems that the Ship was effectively on EMCON, with the Radars apparently not active.

We don't know what happened. We have no clue on the situation.
Why they would be cruising on EMCOM, knowing that dozens of NATO surveillance platforms were flying around.
I am pretty sure of the large, passive engagement of the NATO assets, involving harassment with false raid flight over several weeks, for moral deterioration, and to find patterns for a possible strike, with massive EW.
The ship was old, the rest is speculations at this time.

dcpollay wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:25 pm Are some/all of their vessels operating actively, or are they still maintaining EMCON?

I see news that Makarov or Essen shout downed Bayraktar using outboard targeting from radars located in Crimea.

FrancoisX5 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:16 am The ship was old, the rest is speculations at this time.

Sensible and calm judgment.

FrancoisX5 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:16 am

HalfLifeExpert wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:47 am While it's pretty clear that sub-par crew performance was a major contributing factor to the ship's sinking, It also seems that the Ship was effectively on EMCON, with the Radars apparently not active.

We don't know what happened. We have no clue on the situation.
Why they would be cruising on EMCOM, knowing that dozens of NATO surveillance platforms were flying around.
I am pretty sure of the large, passive engagement of the NATO assets, involving harassment with false raid flight over several weeks, for moral deterioration, and to find patterns for a possible strike, with massive EW.
The ship was old, the rest is speculations at this time.

Yeah and I think this subject is pretty dead until operational reports appear etc. I think we got readiness levels out of the last discussion so the value to CMO has been realized.

Most of what I've seen online is people developing a narrative and then building evidence to support it rather than developing a narrative from evidence. We're all guilty of it, especially on why the f#$% they don't have the Mexican pizza back at my taco bell yet! Dolly even told em to do it!

Mike