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AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:32 am
by Wild
Hey guys,
I usually move OKH to Minsk and this time i left all my AFV support units there during the first winter instead of moving them to the reserve. They all got severely depleted by leaving them there. Is it supposed to work that way? Shouldn't they be protected by being in an urban area?
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:14 pm
by Jango32
Don't the replacement battalions come with no AFVs and receive them in the logistics phase?
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:20 pm
by Wild
Yes. But i moved the replacement armor battalions to OKH after they had 100 TOE. I also moved my Stug battalions off the line to OKH where i thought they would be protected but all got severely depleted. It's a good lesson. Next time i will leave everything in the reserve.
But was just wondering if this is how it's supposed to work?
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:09 pm
by Beethoven1
Wild wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:32 am
Hey guys,
I usually move OKH to Minsk and this time i left all my AFV support units there during the first winter instead of moving them to the reserve. They all got severely depleted by leaving them there. Is it supposed to work that way? Shouldn't they be protected by being in an urban area?
You should leave OKH in Berlin, not Minsk. It is good to have it on a NSS, because the NSS will have close to unlimited freight. Whereas if you have it in Minsk, it is using some freight that could alternatively have been sent to the front, where you need the freight/supply.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:31 pm
by AlbertN
The 'protection' serves little truth be told.
I've experienced Panzer divisions getting 70% damaged veichles in Urban or lvl 2 forts +-
Outside of them? 100% damage AFV in Soviet Winter.
Anyhow to keep them on the map in 'protected' hex serves little purpose, as soon as they move out to intervene in some contigency situation all of the AFV gets damaged by moving a handful of hexes.
In general all the SU units used in Winter that are stug / panzer / pzjager are best returned with posthaste with the OKH after they served whichever specialized function they needed to achieve.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:06 pm
by Wild
Thanks guys. Good tips.
So if i leave OKH in Berlin and have the afv support units there, will they be protected from being depleted in the winter or is it better to just send all afv support units to the reserve?
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:37 pm
by DarkHorse2
Usually leave OKH in Koenigsberg (East Prussia), myself
IMO, that location is perfect for where the Axis reinforcements usually spawn (about 3-4 hexes SW of Berlin).
The units can reach Koenigsberg in one turn, via rail, with just enough mv points to derail.
I try to leave reinforcements stacked with OKH in Koenigsberg a couple of turns to build up CPP, before sending off them to the front.
Koenigsberg is safe from the Soviet Union winters, yet close enough to the Eastern Front for practical purposes.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:24 pm
by AlbertN
In general I keep it in Berlin.
Simply it's NSS, so it won't steal freight for the frontline for what concerns replacements.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:26 pm
by DarkHorse2
Berlin? Seriously?
You must not plan on advancing very deep into the Soviet Union.
Berlin forces your Army Groups to stay too far back.
Berlin -> Smolensk (88 hexes), about as far as AGC can go....
Berlin -> Sumy (95 hexes), whoops - already broke that range limit
nah.... Berlin is too far from front.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:48 pm
by Jango32
OKH/STAVKA does not matter for the purposes of checks, either for assault army bonuses or other sorts of checks because the odds are so small it's pointless unless something is directly attached to it (i.e. support units or newly arrived divisions). So it is best to have them sit on an NSS.
This is a tangent from what the OP has pointed out though. It appears that the winter penalties for motorized/AFV support units ignore the hex type on which an HQ sits.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:01 pm
by AlbertN
DarkHorse2 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:26 pm
Berlin? Seriously?
You must not plan on advancing very deep into the Soviet Union.
Berlin forces your Army Groups to stay too far back.
Berlin -> Smolensk (88 hexes), about as far as AGC can go....
Berlin -> Sumy (95 hexes), whoops - already broke that range limit
nah.... Berlin is too far from front.
Rolls for OKH are already on a dice of 80 faces.
I may bring it further to Warsaw or so MAYBE but Berlin is NSS. The fact it does not suck freight to replace stuff >> some extra dice checks.
I can easily refit Stug and whatnot in there, while in Warsaw will eat an amount of freight, which is sent out each turn. Unless I misunderstand how things work.
But I believe first freight is sent out and then converted. And that means Berlin always have a ton of freight present there to replace anything I need.
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:08 am
by DarkHorse2
I thought everybody had to be in range and under command limits in order for Assault HQ CPP bonuses to kick in?
Silly me, here I was relying on the UI and thought those printed ranges had a valid purpose.
So why even have the command range listed?
Also thought you got bonuses for being closer than "expected", or is this just another "old wives' tale" ?
- AGC_Range.jpg (55.43 KiB) Viewed 548 times
Part 3: Game Concepts
15.5.4. Command Range Modifier
A command range modifier is applied to leader rating checks conducted by leaders
in all headquarters units to which the unit involved in the chain of command, to
include the HQ unit to which the unit is directly attached.
Morale leader rating checks are exempt from the command range modifier.
Each level of headquarters unit has a designated number that the range from it to
the unit is divided by to get the modifier after first subtracting five from the range to
the HQ units, with the value never set below zero.
This means that tracing five or less hexes to any HQ or less than 91 hexes if to an
air command HQ results in no range penalty.
The range effect depends on the level of the HQ unit, so that higher level HQ units
can be located further away and still influence the combat units under their
command. The range modifier interacts with the chain of command checks above.
Note that the range used for this test is the distance in hexes minus five. So an Army
HQ that is within 5 hexes of the unit will face no range penalty.
Errata: Clarification (01.01.01): When determining the modifier, instead of
subtracting 5 from the range before determining the modifier, you subtract the
following:
Corps HQ – 5
Army – 10
Army Group/Front – 15
High command - 20
PlayNote: While the effect of range on leadership effects is relatively
minor, it can be enough to make a critical difference. It is suggested
that higher commands are deployed on the map so they are closer to
the crucial sector of their command. So the Army HQ is closer to the
most important Corps HQ, Army Group HQ closer to the most
important Army and so on
Re: AFV support units in winter
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:29 am
by Stamb
the only way to check it - make tests
there were already great misinformation that overloading army groups have no effect on CPP bonus in assault armies, while you actually have to stay within capacity points limit