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1 german divison with 17000 troops attack 1 soviet divison with 11000 troops, german lost 14, soviet lost 10000. Some other german divison kill thousands of soviet without a single man lost! I know Martix want to simulate the chaos of soviet at the beginning, but that is way much more than reality.

Chaos, less experienced leader, less trained soldiers, low combat prepare level for soviet, armor blitz separate and destroy many units, ok ,that is fine and realistic. But one divison immediately destroy one divison on the battle line without any damage that is unacceptable.

surpise attack, units without proper leaders and unprepared for combat, troops rather fled instead of fight, etc

Denniss wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:20 pm surpise attack, units without proper leaders and unprepared for combat, troops rather fled instead of fight, etc

If the Russian divisions had fled instead of fought, then the Germans would have fulfilled the Barbarossa plan! And so it really looks funny and unreliable! I understand everything perfectly, but the loss of 1 to 1000 is too much! I already wrote that in WITE the results of the battle calculation looked more predictable. In WITE2 there is too often a large spread of results. Sometimes the Germans suffer very small losses, and sometimes huge ones, and it’s quite difficult to understand why this happens! Although the average results do look acceptable!

combat losses in WitE1 have always been somewhat limited, most live from retreat losses.
Plus with the 1st turn rules many units have randomized readiness/fatigue status thus many elements count as disrupted and do not fire.

Denniss wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:00 pm combat losses in WitE1 have always been somewhat limited, most live from retreat losses.
Plus with the 1st turn rules many units have randomized readiness/fatigue status thus many elements count as disrupted and do not fire.

The rule of randomness of the first move is a separate sore point for scenario developers! It seems that there was a speech that the editor will include the option to turn off randomness. In general, of course, it is a pity that it is impossible to view the calculation of combat chances and determine the reasons for very high or very low combat losses.

malyhin1517 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:35 pm

Denniss wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:00 pm combat losses in WitE1 have always been somewhat limited, most live from retreat losses.
Plus with the 1st turn rules many units have randomized readiness/fatigue status thus many elements count as disrupted and do not fire.

The rule of randomness of the first move is a separate sore point for scenario developers! It seems that there was a speech that the editor will include the option to turn off randomness. In general, of course, it is a pity that it is impossible to view the calculation of combat chances and determine the reasons for very high or very low combat losses.

The first round all soviet divisions CV are set as 1 even below 1，like 0.5，while German division has 27. No wonder the KDA can be so unrealistic. 1 german divison equals 54 soviet divison! What a superman! By the way, the real KDA at the beginning of east war is 1 german to 6 soviet.
I am done with this, just want to know how to recover CV after first round, if all soviet units only have 1 cv，it just wont win.

AFAIR this cv reduction is just for the first turn, afterwards calculation is standard. They will still suffer from different penalty levels during the first war months of 1941 to reflect the massive disorganization and leadership problem mostly caused by stalin's officer purges.

Denniss wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:56 pm AFAIR this cv reduction is just for the first turn, afterwards calculation is standard. They will still suffer from different penalty levels during the first war months of 1941 to reflect the massive disorganization and leadership problem mostly caused by stalin's officer purges.

Thanks, another question, why the surrounded unit cant move out even the hex does not have any enemy unit in it? Interdiction?

You need to be more specific.

It could be that the Russian unit is frozen and for some reason is not releasing to allow movement when the German unit gets too close.

This happens to one strong Russian Tank division down south on turn 1 and maybe turn 2 as well.

Also the far south zone is Russian frozen and if the German don't trigger the correct map unfreeze hexes, they stay frozen for turn 2 and then maybe also turn 3.

Otherwise a unit can always move 1 hex even if its MP's show zero.

BrianG wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:31 pm You need to be more specific.

It could be that the Russian unit is frozen and for some reason is not releasing to allow movement when the German unit gets too close.

This happens to one strong Russian Tank division down south on turn 1 and maybe turn 2 as well.

Also the far south zone is Russian frozen and if the German don't trigger the correct map unfreeze hexes, they stay frozen for turn 2 and then maybe also turn 3.

Otherwise a unit can always move 1 hex even if its MP's show zero.

No，I am not talk about southern front, southwest and west front surrounded army have enough MP but when it touch the red enemy zone even without enemy it cant move.

Post a pic

Are you by chance talking of the hq units, and airbases. These may not enter enemy controlled zoc hexes unless there is friendly ground unit already in the hex.