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I tried searching for an answer on this and couldn't find it. If you go either S or E of hex 187,187 on the first turn then the Soviet South Front activates? So if you stay N or W of that hex then there isn't much AGS can do the first turn. Is it better to just activate the Soviet Front and what exactly does that entail for turn one? They are not going to counterattack anyways.

From the side of the Soviet player. The difference is palpable, the ability to break the Southern Front is a very good pace of the Southern direction from the German side. The defense of Odessa becomes an order of magnitude more difficult. This has advantages, but also disadvantages. I would advise at the moment and meta not to activate the Southern Soviet Front.

hossjww30 wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:06 pm I tried searching for an answer on this and couldn't find it. If you go either S or E of hex 187,187 on the first turn then the Soviet South Front activates? So if you stay N or W of that hex then there isn't much AGS can do the first turn. Is it better to just activate the Soviet Front and what exactly does that entail for turn one? They are not going to counterattack anyways.

It activates if you go east *AND* south of that hex, not OR

You can take Lvov and all the rails from the border to Lvov. And start to build a depot at Lvov end of turn 1.

Beethoven1 wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:06 pm It activates if you go east *AND* south of that hex, not OR

Sorry, but I just picked up WITE 2 very recently (experienced WITE 1 SP player) I see the 187,187 hex so:

a) if I move German units down to row 186 &/or move along that row east and 'occupy' hexes in row 187 through ZOC, does that set it off
b) same but if my units only go into row 187 &/or move east but don't move any further south of row 187, does that set it off
c) If I move a German unit INTO 187,187 hex itself, but not into any more 187 East or South, does that set it off
d) In terms of crossing the line coming east from south of hex 187,187 what is the line? Is it straight down the 187 column, so that it jiggers 1 by half by 1 by half in a sort of zig zag? Or is it diagonal?
e) So can I occupy the 'Lysyatychi' airbase hex 186,189 & or Stryi airbase town hex 186,190 without setting off the S Front Unlock
f) What about if I ONLY put a German unit into the clear hex between 'Lysyatychi' airbase - 187,189 - & Khodorov town hex 188,189, can I still successfully attack that town hex, but not move into it and still not set off the S Front unlock?

If you flip any hex inside the shape (the hexes that the horizontal line goes through are fine to flip, but nothing below them) you will activate Southern Front.

Just to add to this, you can take Lwow with no issue and surround the Mtn Divisions in 17 Army area with no activation, in sum you have to intently cross that threshold on purpose.

Jango32 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:56 pm ...the hexes that the horizontal line goes through are fine to flip, but nothing below them) you will activate Southern Front.

Yes, I gather that, so Germans can capture along the road/rail lines going through Tarnopol & Proskurov etc, while flipping hexes in the 187 row below that, BUT not move any German unit south into row 187, to avaid 'S' Front activation, got it thanks.

However, just to be sure south of Lvov area, at or below 187,187 hex, moving eastwards seems to be that jiggery hex pattern exclusion 'line'; so German units can attack the Soviet 34 Tank Div, 12 Tank Div in Stryi & the 44th Mtn Div AND move into their starting position hexes but not move into any hex east of their positions.

Similarly, a German unit can move from the west or NW into the empty Lysyatychi airbase hex, but not move into the clear hex to its immediate east then to still keep 'S' Front locked on Soviet 1st turn then?

How about the units in the romania area - can they thrust northwards?

In the image provided there is a 1=1 Soviet tank division southeast of the Lvov hex. That is fine to attack. The tank division with ? southeast of the aforementioned division is not ok to attack if you want to keep SF frozen. Same with the 1=1 mech division (Berezhany hex) on the same hex line as the ? tank division, don't attack if you want to keep SF frozen.

11th Army and the Axis allies are frozen on turn 1.

aMaschina wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:51 am How about the units in the romania area - can they thrust northwards?

I was wondering the same thing. I was also wondering the purpose of this rule. Does it benefit the Germans or the Russians?

joey wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:17 pm

aMaschina wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:51 am How about the units in the romania area - can they thrust northwards?

I was wondering the same thing. I was also wondering the purpose of this rule. Does it benefit the Germans or the Russians?

Pro's and Cons to both.

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:22 pm

joey wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:17 pm

aMaschina wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:51 am How about the units in the romania area - can they thrust northwards?

I was wondering the same thing. I was also wondering the purpose of this rule. Does it benefit the Germans or the Russians?

Pro's and Cons to both.

Jango has some really good pro's and con's on this from his analysis. But for turn 1 the Rumanians are not allowed to move even if this was activated.

Jango32 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:52 am ...The tank division with ? southeast of the aforementioned division is not ok to attack if you want to keep SF frozen.

Seems like that is the34th Tank Div start location; Don't even attack it to keep 'S' Front frozen on Soviet turn 1, got it!
Cheers.

Thank y'all for the helpful posts. I'm new to WitE2 (and any GG's games) and I was wondering why I couldn't move the SF--luckily I started with Army Group North, and now working in Center. I certainly need all the help I can get, and I hope not activating it on T1 will be helpful.

As a side note, lovin' this game, and now I own WitW and EDtBotR, as well. Definitely a fan.

Again, thanks for the help.

Cooper

In WiTE1, the Germans used to, regularly, pocket all the Soviets in Galacia on Turn 1.

In WiTE2, you have this rule, and some additional Germans frozen on Turn 1, to help prevent.

(not 100% sure about the additional Germans frozen on T1, but I don't remember this many in the early releases of WiTE....)