Matrix Games Forums

I'm unsure if it is 'fair' and that well balanced to have this upgrade with a cost of 20%, whether you are upgrading a brigade, division, or corps. Basically while interesting, it's not exceptional research either. cavalries, trains, and balloons can help you reconnoitre an area. So 20% to start with?

And then, to refine further my remark, this bonus is basically not tied to the unit it belongs to, somehow. Much less at least than an increase in firepower. So should corps really pay 20% of their cost for it?
I would propose to have it cost respectively 20%/15%/10% of a brigade/division/corps value in fact.

Comments?

I would say keep it the same at 20%. Its horses by the way with mounted infantry...so a Corps is going to have to buy way more horses, men and the feed\upkeep for a Corp then lets say a Division.
Its not necessary to put attach scouts on every unit anyways. Adding scouts to a Corp should be expensive. At least that's my opinion.

It was 35% when I first added the idea to the game 20% is a bargain!

I've given a lot of thought to this idea, and I tend to think that there is a greater value to attaching a Scout upgrade to a corps instead of say a brigade despite the upgrade not being any better for the corps in absolute terms. Units upgraded with scouts, by virtue of how the upgrade works, have to be in the front line in order to utilise the upgrade effectively, and units in the frontline are fairly likely to come under attack in the opponent's turn. A brigade that gets attacked in the late part of the game is likely to die, while a corps is much tougher to destroy outright. In effect, the "extra" cost is the equivalent of paying for extra protection for the scouting ability.

Needing more horse feed? Possibly I don't see how a corps would need more scouting detachments to locate the enemy than a division would - the enemy's location isn't changed just by your force being bigger. So, jury's still out on that.

- BNC

BiteNibbleChomp wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:13 am

Needing more horse feed? Possibly I don't see how a corps would need more scouting detachments to locate the enemy than a division would - the enemy's location isn't changed just by your force being bigger. So, jury's still out on that.

- BNC

LoL
Ok not more horse feed. If the size of the scout detachments for a Corps is the same as a Division then sure. So why the cost difference than?*
*Playing the devil's advocate here because I like the costs as they are...but now that you mentioned it.......

Scouts are pointless in the Parking Lot battles of Virginia. Just need a Cavalry riding behind your own lines (odd, eh?) to spot. Has caused me some game losses to figure this out.

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:17 pm Scouts are pointless in the Parking Lot battles of Virginia. Just need a Cavalry riding behind your own lines (odd, eh?) to spot. Has caused me some game losses to figure this out.

Balloons in Northern Virginia work nicely for scouting.

As for the cost, this is interesting to ponder. In functional terms, a brigade has a lot less frontage to scout than a corps so the cost should be substantially higher for the latter to scout its frontage.

In game terms, there is only finding "a hex" so the scouting is functionally the same outcome at the same scale for both units.

and in this case, gameplay balance should trump 'historicity', if there is any in saying it should cost more because of more horses. Even if that's true, this is not the point here, in all due respect.

Elvis is definitely right, the 'parking lot' make it so that corps in Virginia won't have scouts. How this is historical?

Scouts aren't really good... And too expensive to be utilized IMHO, a Cavalry unit generally is far superior in all aspects. That extra Hex you can see into just makes them a necessary evil with your Main Army. If you have Scouts on a Corp say, it is still very likely you'll bounce off something at some point so I generally just build more Indians(which you see a lot of in game) and move more Scouts East...

Pocus wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:31 am and in this case, gameplay balance should trump 'historicity', if there is any in saying it should cost more because of more horses. Even if that's true, this is not the point here, in all due respect.

Elvis is definitely right, the 'parking lot' make it so that corps in Virginia won't have scouts. How this is historical?

battlevonwar wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:41 pm Scouts aren't really good... And too expensive to be utilized IMHO, a Cavalry unit generally is far superior in all aspects. That extra Hex you can see into just makes them a necessary evil with your Main Army. If you have Scouts on a Corp say, it is still very likely you'll bounce off something at some point so I generally just build more Indians(which you see a lot of in game) and move more Scouts East...

Yep Scouts upgrade could be killed and replaced by something like 'field artillery' on corps/divisions and world would be better place.

.