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So I'm playing the 1941 GC as the Axis- versus a Soviet computer. After the games second logistic phase, at the beginning of the Axis turn 3 movement phase, I noticed that all 160 of 6th Panzer Division's Czech 35 (t)s had vanished. Looking back at my previous saves- I managed to see how this occurred, but I don't know why. It may be a game WAD or a one-off bug. Maybe other players can tell me, or have experienced this.

Situation- start of turn 3 AGN- 6th Panzer Division's- 160 panzer's 35 (t)s have gone into the twilight zone. (but it still retains its complement of CS tanks (panzer IV short barrel) and Pz mark II light recon tanks).

Facts:

1) at the end of turn 1- 6th Panzer Division had been broken down into 3 regiments-- at this point all 3 regiments have roughly 50 - 35 (t) tanks each.

2) at the start of turn 2 movement (after the games first logistic phase)- one of 6th panzers regiments had all 50 plus of its 35 (t) tanks vanish, though I did not notice it at the time. The other 2 regiments of the division, at this point, still retain their 50 plus each Czech 35 (t) tanks. -

3) during turn 2's movement phase, I recombined the 3 panzer rgts into a divison sized unit again- so at the end of turn 2, 6th Panzer division had around 100 35(t)s remaining in its possession.

4) at the start turn 3 movement phase- after the games 2nd logistic phase- I now noticed that 6th Panzer divison now had no Czech 35 (t)s in its possession. It still retained- its Close support and recon tanks- but its main battle tank was gone.

5) I checked the turn 1 pool of 35 (t)s and it was 15. The pool of 35 (t)s had increased to 70 by the beginning of turn 3.

Strange to pull the entire complement of the divison's main battle tank (albeit a low tier one) not 3 weeks into the GC.

the following 2 attachments are two of the regts (1 and 2) with their full complement of 35 (t) tanks at the end of turn 1.

Next is the 3rd Panzer regiment of 6th Panzer division on turn 1 with everything still intact:
This is the start turn 2 when one of the panzer regiments had its complement of 35 t's disappear:

As stated before, the other 2 regts were still intact. I combined all 3 regts at turn 2 and the total 35 (t) tanks was now about 100: Finally, start of turn 3-- after the games second logistics phase- all 35 (t)s are gone: 6 Pz divisions loss of 160 panzers is a significant setback (maybe 8-15 CV), especially in AGN area of operations and this early. Not to mention the amount of work already put into the campaign.

I can't imagine- it's an upgrade/downgrade routine - because there are no sufficient pools of any type of tank built up yet.

That is odd. In my last test game the 35t's weren't sent back until the TOE of the division changed calling for different tanks, and the division had been broken up several times. If you have saves at the start or end of the Soviet turn before the tanks were returned, please attach them or email them to 2by3@2by3games.com. If it repeats, we can try to figure out what's causing it. Thanks.

Gotcha, will do.

Since the tanks went missing on 2 consecutive turns- I included both end of german turn saves, just in case.

This is a TOE problem vs the equipment of the units, running out of equipment slots so randomly chosen elements are kicked-out.
OB of several early PzDivs contain the disabled 232 armored car that should be replaced with more 231 instead, saving a slot.
10/4 and 7/1 do not generally belong to these early PzD as most (if not all) were in independent units, saves two more slots.
Panzer-I based sIG33 SP guns were not part of Pzdivs either, there were 6 independent Bns/companies attached to PzDivs, would ave another equipment slot. Requires an SP IG OB to fix though.

Ok, I'll move this to the data area if it's a data issue to be improved. Thanks.

once the game engine is able to merge the 2x each Panzer II/IV slots into just one of each there may be sufficient space available to get the 35t back into the unit.
What I don't like to see is zero experience for new equipment slots as seen for the 15cm cannon.
the empty 7/1 slot with fatigue loks odd too especially as that type is substituted by 6/2 so another slot is lost. towed 150mm sig33 slot seems lost too.

Follow up:

On the next turn- (turn 4)- the (35)t slot has decided to make a reappearance in the 1/6 regiment. total of 16 Panzer 35 (t)s with an experience level of 55

Will this be fixed in the next patch?

I've asked Trey to take a look at this to see if he can implement some of Dennis's ideas. These would be data/scenario changes, which would only impact newly started games.

That would be great. If I understand this problem correctly looking at the 42 Panzer Division it has even more TOE element groups than most of the various 41 Panzer Divisions. This seems like it could perhaps be worse.

Denniss wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:27 pm Panzer-I based sIG33 SP guns were not part of Pzdivs either, there were 6 independent Bns/companies attached to PzDivs, would ave another equipment slot. Requires an SP IG OB to fix though.

So here you are saying, for example, the 1st Panzer Division had a special attachment, the 702nd SP Artillery (sIG33 SP guns), this would be made a Support Unit so as to not take up a space in the TOE?

There were six or seven independent SP Infantry gun units attached to various Panzer divs, most were disbanded in 1942 when they ran out of vehicles but some made it into 1943.

Can I get saves from the OP for your issue with the 35t's being pulled out of the Panzer division? Ideally the save closest to just before the German logistics phase when they were removed (pre-log Soviet save, or Soviet start of turn save, or worst case if you don't use autosaves, the last save from your prior German turn. Along with the save from the German turn after the 35t's were removed. If I can get these saves than hopefully Pavel can make a code change to improve this (maybe only slots with a small number of elements would be removed if absolutely needed). Please send the saves to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.

This game was played on the most recently released beta- (.39)

It is a repeatable bug, I started a second game -took the same actions and it occurred just as it did previously.
As follows- turn 1- break down 6th Panzer divison into regiments. turn 2- the 1/6 regiment has lost all its (35)ts )the slot was gone, recombine all 3 regiments- minus now some of the tanks (those missing from 1/6 regiment).
turn 3- all tanks now gone at start of turn (the slot is gone). save 36 is turn 1 end state, save 53 is turn 2 end state.
turn 4-- the slot has reappeared with 15 (35)t tanks-- but at experience level 55.

Thanks, this save is a great case for us to use. The issue is the TOE calls for all 29 slots to be used up with items. The unit starts with a few items that are not in the TOE. In the logistics phase the game tries to add the items that are in the TOE but not yet in the unit, and in doing so, fills up all slots and still needs more slots. In this case it pulls out an item in the TOE (35t) instead of one of the items not in the TOE but in the unit at start. Ideally it would get rid of the item not in the TOE. Have put it on the list for Pavel to try to improve if possible.