Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:44 pm**

Zovs had a very interesting situation on recombines here shared here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5#p5028735 on this forum. I do have to ask, "Is this WAD"? Or has a bug appeared.

Thank you

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:12 pm**

Coincidentally one of the testers posted a similar situation yesterday in the tester forum. It appears that elements that are subbing in for other types get some amount of them returned to the pool upon recombine. In the save it was 24 light tanks that were subbing for 21 recon tanks. The amount sent back varied each time, so there's some random factor. I added this to the bug list. It appears that the build up was not accounting for the fact that these out of TOE items were subbing for other missing items. The items go back to the pool, so they are not lost, but the system should account for items that are legally subbing for missing items.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:42 pm**

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:12 pm Coincidentally one of the testers posted a similar situation yesterday in the tester forum. It appears that elements that are subbing in for other types get some amount of them returned to the pool upon recombine. In the save it was 24 light tanks that were subbing for 21 recon tanks. The amount sent back varied each time, so there's some random factor. I added this to the bug list. It appears that the build up was not accounting for the fact that these out of TOE items were subbing for other missing items. The items go back to the pool, so they are not lost, but the system should account for items that are legally subbing for missing items.

BUT, just thinking out loud here, if subbing is taking place would not the numbers be the same? Or go up and down in other categories. Only thing I see is a total loss of items in all three categories.

If going to the pool doesnt that effect net return/loss too?

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:55 pm**

I looked into one of Zovs cases and found it is excess TOE (over 100%) that returns to the active pool when the unit recombines. That part is WAD. I think sending back overstrength elements is restricted in the logistics phase for the first few turns of a scenario, but I didn't realize that it happens upon recombining elements. The bigger issue is elements subbing in (the tester case from yesterday) for missing elements. Since the unit is not overstrength, it would be best if those elements were retrained by the unit.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:58 pm**

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:12 pm Coincidentally one of the testers posted a similar situation yesterday in the tester forum. It appears that elements that are subbing in for other types get some amount of them returned to the pool upon recombine. In the save it was 24 light tanks that were subbing for 21 recon tanks. The amount sent back varied each time, so there's some random factor. I added this to the bug list. It appears that the build up was not accounting for the fact that these out of TOE items were subbing for other missing items. The items go back to the pool, so they are not lost, but the system should account for items that are legally subbing for missing items.

Joel, this has nothing to do with AFV losses. I just opened up the C41, skip the air phase and break down every German Infantry division in 17th Army and 6th Army, each division losses from 30 to 150 men and from 2 to 10 artillery pieces. And yet in the loss screen not a single loss.

So where are these lost men?

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:03 pm**

Which patch level are you running?

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:19 pm**

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:23 pm**

Been running on .39 for about a month now, was so busy testing CPP, and some other things I never thought to test Breakdown and Recombine and check if men just disappear and don't' get reported in the Loss log.

I think this is a serious bug that needs fixing.

Breaking down and recombining any Division (Panzer, Motorized Infantry, Infantry, Mountain, Light or Sec Divisions should not be loosing men and artillery.

None of the losses are going to any pool. They are just lost form the division.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:33 pm**

Did you check if they are coming back the next turn?

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:09 pm**

ncc1701e wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:33 pm Did you check if they are coming back the next turn?

yeah, all the way into Mother Russia, good luck with that as a German player

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:18 pm**

Check the german manpower in transfer pool, if stuff is removed from units it should show up there after recombining. compare before and after values.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:52 pm**

ncc1701e wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:33 pm Did you check if they are coming back the next turn?

Ended the turn and its the start of the Soviet turn and no such thing:

I ended the Soviet turn and the losses you see are just attrition losses, none from the breakdown and recombine actions (note that I did every German unit in AGS and it would be more that the 181 rifle squads).

The breakdown and recombine losses from T1 are just gone.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:00 pm**

The elements are not lost. They go to the active manpower and equipment pools. They are sent back because they are over 100% of TOE. This is WAD, although it means scenario designers can't really put extra elements into units as they'll just get stripped out at the first opportunity. Again, they are not losses.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:07 pm**

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:00 pm The elements are not lost. They go to the active manpower and equipment pools. They are sent back because they are over 100% of TOE. This is WAD, although it means scenario designers can't really put extra elements into units as they'll just get stripped out at the first opportunity. Again, they are not losses.

Joel, how do I see the active manpower and equipment pools?

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:13 pm**

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:00 pm The elements are not lost. They go to the active manpower and equipment pools. They are sent back because they are over 100% of TOE. This is WAD, although it means scenario designers can't really put extra elements into units as they'll just get stripped out at the first opportunity. Again, they are not losses.

Thank you so much for a very speedy reply and looking into this Mr. Billings. As always greatly appreciated.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:43 pm**

Go to the production screen and click on All Pools in the lower right so it says Active Pools.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:14 pm**

i tried to check it in StB and everything is working correctly for all unit types for both sides
i thought that maybe i have special game, but in GC it is bugged

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:16 pm**

Just means StoB units weren't built overstrength, or with elements not called for by the TOEs.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:48 am**

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:00 pm The elements are not lost. They go to the active manpower and equipment pools. They are sent back because they are over 100% of TOE. This is WAD, although it means scenario designers can't really put extra elements into units as they'll just get stripped out at the first opportunity. Again, they are not losses.

Joel,

I opened up the Typhoon scenario and advanced the Air phase. Then I selected the Das Reich which is understrength, broke it down, then recombined it. And I see losses on recombine.

Before:

After:

I don't see any damaged elements in the production view for the active pools.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:50 am**

The Das Reich is missing 130 men, but not sure where?

Matrix Games Forums

Recombine losses WAD?????

Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses Infantry or Armor - Where do the lost Men and equipment go?

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????

Re: Recombine losses WAD?????