Matrix Games Forums

Only got the game recently, but I have 3 games so far. My first was a test run I ended up abandoning when I seen I was doing poorly. The second was going well but one of my neighbor declared war on me and was steamrolling my fleets, they had somehow much higher tech that I had and the manufacturing capability I could not match. On my third try however I have become one of the strongest, if not the strongest empire, and I barely got destroyers.

One thing I noticed when trading tech is the AI often neglect to research the basic techs like cargo upgrades, crew capacity, sensors, mining upgrades, docking upgrades and medical modules for stations. That hurt the capabilities of their private sector to perform, to bring credits and resources. With a stronger economy the AI would perform better and be more competitive in the long run.

Why is the AI neglecting the basics?

I am by no means an expert but since no one has replied I'll let you know what I do for this very reason. In my startup settings I set it to manual for other Empires. Since I usually play with a thousand stars I like to run with about 15 to 20 other Empires. Most of them I'll leave on random but three or four of them I'll give some kind of technological Head Start. I usually leave the races at random with the exception of picking at least one aggressive race to be on a higher tech tier level. This would be I guess equivalent to Advanced AI starts in Stellaris. And also set the difficulty settings higher but I was assuming you are already doing that. Hope that helps

I do similarly - 1000 stars, max galaxy size (though this can be hard for the game, especially vanilla - probably better on the 2nd to largest galaxy size so that it doesn't starve for resources over those longer shipping distances).

I usually just give all of the AIs the small empire (2-4 starting worlds - which forces them to have level 0 and 1 tech already researched), while I set myself to pre-warp or level 0 with a starting empire (1 world).

I also modded the automation plans for the AIs to use settings that work for me - 75/25 split on growth/research for elective spending, e.g., and a few other tweaks (see my mod if you want to see the details).

I usually play on Very Hard.

But even with all of that, some games pose a good challenge, and some do not. The AIs tend to build too much stuff for their fledgeling empires - often slowing down their own growth by fielding too large of a navy, and not focusing enough on economic growth. Or something - I wish I could set the AIs to never build ships outside of fleets -- they're just an economic anchor -- building them only for fleets - and then just the right amount of fleets - gives a much better economic curve.

The AIs also seem to often over-colonize - so that they again bog their economies down too severely. Not sure how to make that any better?

And the Boskara especially - they have these massive economic scores early - but rarely are able to do one damn thing with it. Not sure why? Like - wtf do they waste all of their money on that they only get to a handful of worlds and then just stagnate for the rest of the game?

The other AIs tend to be hyper gang-up on the outsider -- so sometimes that's why the Boskarans are anemic and useless - they're just picked on by too many neighbors. But that doesn't entirely explain it. They should be steam rolling their neighbors with that insane economic boost they get (those that have the hive mind anyway).

Still - some games I can manage to create a fun scenario -- but it's hit or miss. Really wish I could do more to help the AIs not get stuck - not suck after a certain point in what seems like every single game.

I also set the AI empires a few tech levels and on either Young or Expanding... Since I mostly play on Rare colonizable worlds those extra worlds really is a huge advantage.

The only issue right now is that the game often give really poor worlds to the AI, to the brink it might even ruin their economy. So, every game I start, I have to go into the editor and check every world the AI have colonised and make sure the quality of those worlds is OK.

This is pretty irritating to be honest... as it spoils where all the empires are.

As far as I understand, game difficulty doesn't really affect the AI. It only gives the player penalties. I might be wrong on this though.

The problem with the AI is that it does not prioritize correctly. This can be mainly seen in 3 ways:

a) The AI doesn't know how to handle its economy to stay competitive with the player. It overbuilds its ground forces and fills up its planets with useless buildings (that mostly have to do with ground defenses). This tanks its income, which in turn affects its research output, and its expansion (no money to build colony ships, constructors, explorers and research stations).

b) The AI doesn't prioritize the right techs. The AI seems to beeline for the High-Tech Academies that boost research and their wonders, as well as trying to get the Diplomacy techs as quickly as possible. This results in the AI getting stuck researching high-tier techs and totally neglecting everything else. As a result, it stays way behind in engines, weapons, armor, shields and hyperdrives, which makes its ship very weak.

c) The AI doesn't know how to manage its military ships very well. Players will usually have a small number of strong fleets, strategically placed to cover the most important targets in certain large areas of space. The AI instead builds a hell of a lot more ships than the player usually, but splits them up into very small (and usually ineffective) fleets, or allows them to patrol alone. The AI will usually have the upper hand in terms of numbers in any war with a player. But it brings its ships into battle one by one or in small staggered groups, which end up getting annihilated by the more consolidated player forces. If the AI grouped its ships in larger fleets, it would be able to give an at least fair fight to the player. To make things worse, the AI doesn't seem to realize it's in a war. Instead of defending its home world with everything it has, it will instead send half its military force away to randomly protect civilian ships and mining stations.

These 3 factors alone can work together to put the AI in a spiral of stagnation. Every new colony means a huge investement for ground forces and fortifications. The reduced income makes the AI less able to handle its research, expansion and military forces. The reduced research means the AI lags behind the player very early on. And outspending the player on military ships is meaningless, because those ships just get slaughtered, which makes its economic situation even worse when it tries to rebuild them.

There's a decent fix to this, and it's not about difficulty:

When you set up a new galaxy, set the AI to start at a tech level that is 3-4 steps ahead of you. This will take away most of the "problem techs" that the AI focuses on to the detriment of everything else. It will also give buildings to the AI that will boost its economy significantly. At least for me I've seen a huge improvement to the mid-game. The AI is still mismanaging its fleets, but it's at least strong enough to put up an interesting fight, and it expands a lot more easily. It's also a lot more willing to build research stations!

Another thing that helps is to NOT drop the colony prevalence to the rarest setting. It helps the AI to expand to more worthwhile planets that won't end up draining its economy.

Yes... I have changed allot in the the policies for the AI, fleet templates and how it builds troops and facilities in addition to changing the maintenance cost of troops and some buildings.

This has made the AI allot more competent and dangerous... the only thing I have not managed to do yet is stop the AI from beelining to the high tier wonder techs that ruins their development, these buildings are not that useful for the AI to begin with.

In regards to fleet the AI no longer use ships to patrol on their own and concentrate their ships in much larger fleets making the AI allot more difficult to beat in a war. Now the AI comes at me with very large fleets and often several ones at the same time. They also don't suicide their fleets and retreat if the odds is not in their favour, this also make it harder to pin down their fleets when you do manage to overwhelm them. But at least now I have on occasion been surprised by the AI jumping in reinforcement in very large numbers which forced me to retreat.

In order to fix the research issue I might need to fix it with much higher requirements for unlocking them and also doing so in more steep steps, this will force the AI to do other things until they accumulated enough research bonuses. So this would make the AI do these more in stages than everyone at once. Probably the best idea until this gets fixed.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:57 am In order to fix the research issue I might need to fix it with much higher requirements for unlocking them and also doing so in more steep steps, this will force the AI to do other things until they accumulated enough research bonuses. So this would make the AI do these more in stages than everyone at once. Probably the best idea until this gets fixed.

I think that would help too.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:57 am Yes... I have changed allot in the the policies for the AI, fleet templates and how it builds troops and facilities in addition to changing the maintenance cost of troops and some buildings.

This has made the AI allot more competent and dangerous... the only thing I have not managed to do yet is stop the AI from beelining to the high tier wonder techs that ruins their development, these buildings are not that useful for the AI to begin with.

In regards to fleet the AI no longer use ships to patrol on their own and concentrate their ships in much larger fleets making the AI allot more difficult to beat in a war. Now the AI comes at me with very large fleets and often several ones at the same time. They also don't suicide their fleets and retreat if the odds is not in their favour, this also make it harder to pin down their fleets when you do manage to overwhelm them. But at least now I have on occasion been surprised by the AI jumping in reinforcement in very large numbers which forced me to retreat.

In order to fix the research issue I might need to fix it with much higher requirements for unlocking them and also doing so in more steep steps, this will force the AI to do other things until they accumulated enough research bonuses. So this would make the AI do these more in stages than everyone at once. Probably the best idea until this gets fixed.

It's very good to hear that you've tackled these issues. Do you have the mod somewhere available? It seems like you've put in a lot of work and it sounds very promising.

OrnluWolfjarl wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:34 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:57 am Yes... I have changed allot in the the policies for the AI, fleet templates and how it builds troops and facilities in addition to changing the maintenance cost of troops and some buildings.

This has made the AI allot more competent and dangerous... the only thing I have not managed to do yet is stop the AI from beelining to the high tier wonder techs that ruins their development, these buildings are not that useful for the AI to begin with.

In regards to fleet the AI no longer use ships to patrol on their own and concentrate their ships in much larger fleets making the AI allot more difficult to beat in a war. Now the AI comes at me with very large fleets and often several ones at the same time. They also don't suicide their fleets and retreat if the odds is not in their favour, this also make it harder to pin down their fleets when you do manage to overwhelm them. But at least now I have on occasion been surprised by the AI jumping in reinforcement in very large numbers which forced me to retreat.

In order to fix the research issue I might need to fix it with much higher requirements for unlocking them and also doing so in more steep steps, this will force the AI to do other things until they accumulated enough research bonuses. So this would make the AI do these more in stages than everyone at once. Probably the best idea until this gets fixed.

It's very good to hear that you've tackled these issues. Do you have the mod somewhere available? It seems like you've put in a lot of work and it sounds very promising.

Well... it is in a constant state of change... I usually speed run with most of my empire on automation only controlling a few things such as ship design and diplomacy. On occasion I play more on a manual approach as well, depending on the time I have on my hand, usually in the weekend. If I'm working I can have the game run on its own in the side, nice when working with computers all day long..

I generally don't like to release personal modding as I don't like to support them, too much work as they are mostly for my own enjoyment and personal style. The modding I have done is mostly to tailor the AI to do better though and most changes is done for that benefit, but I also fixed some balance issues... probably introduced a few as well though...


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ndu4db3rnahh ... 1.zip?dl=0

Here is my latest XML files if anyone like to try them... I have done some radical changes to the research tree lately so it might be unbalanced, especially if you play in a small galaxy... I always play on 2000 stars with 10-15 empires that start at tech level 2-3, young to expanding. I also would advice you to check all the empires so all their starting colonies are 20+ suitability... as I often play with low or rare colony prevalence they often get too low quality on their initial colonies, which can make their economy suffer quite badly.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:07 pm

OrnluWolfjarl wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:34 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:57 am Yes... I have changed allot in the the policies for the AI, fleet templates and how it builds troops and facilities in addition to changing the maintenance cost of troops and some buildings.

This has made the AI allot more competent and dangerous... the only thing I have not managed to do yet is stop the AI from beelining to the high tier wonder techs that ruins their development, these buildings are not that useful for the AI to begin with.

In regards to fleet the AI no longer use ships to patrol on their own and concentrate their ships in much larger fleets making the AI allot more difficult to beat in a war. Now the AI comes at me with very large fleets and often several ones at the same time. They also don't suicide their fleets and retreat if the odds is not in their favour, this also make it harder to pin down their fleets when you do manage to overwhelm them. But at least now I have on occasion been surprised by the AI jumping in reinforcement in very large numbers which forced me to retreat.

In order to fix the research issue I might need to fix it with much higher requirements for unlocking them and also doing so in more steep steps, this will force the AI to do other things until they accumulated enough research bonuses. So this would make the AI do these more in stages than everyone at once. Probably the best idea until this gets fixed.

It's very good to hear that you've tackled these issues. Do you have the mod somewhere available? It seems like you've put in a lot of work and it sounds very promising.

Well... it is in a constant state of change... I usually speed run with most of my empire on automation only controlling a few things such as ship design and diplomacy. On occasion I play more on a manual approach as well, depending on the time I have on my hand, usually in the weekend. If I'm working I can have the game run on its own in the side, nice when working with computers all day long..

I generally don't like to release personal modding as I don't like to support them, too much work as they are mostly for my own enjoyment and personal style. The modding I have done is mostly to tailor the AI to do better though and most changes is done for that benefit, but I also fixed some balance issues... probably introduced a few as well though...


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ndu4db3rnahh ... 1.zip?dl=0

Here is my latest XML files if anyone like to try them... I have done some radical changes to the research tree lately so it might be unbalanced, especially if you play in a small galaxy... I always play on 2000 stars with 10-15 empires that start at tech level 2-3, young to expanding. I also would advice you to check all the empires so all their starting colonies are 20+ suitability... as I often play with low or rare colony prevalence they often get too low quality on their initial colonies, which can make their economy suffer quite badly.

Thanks, I'll check it out!