Matrix Games Forums

Which weapons exactly are not subject to fire arc given by design?

I suppose missile weapons and area weapons ignore fire arc limitation, what other weapons ignore it and which weapon stat tells you that?

In addition do you have any recommendations about fire arc and best weapons for specific slots?

Any weapon with the type of seeking or area will ignore fire arcs.

Even Seeking weapons are still subject to fire arcs. They can turn the second they are out of the tube, but that can still give enemy PD a bit of extra time to take them out. It only maters if you end up at complete saturation or the enemy got no PD.

Area weapons "only" have a large explosion when they hit. They are not a 360° AoE effect around the ship!
But all Area effect weapons I know are also seeking, so they kinda ignore it too.

varangy wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:49 am Any weapon with the type of seeking or area will ignore fire arcs.

Thanks, I didn't pay attention to that.

zgrssd wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:39 pm Area weapons "only" have a large explosion when they hit. They are not a 360° AoE effect around the ship!
But all Area effect weapons I know are also seeking, so they kinda ignore it too.

How are area weapons not 360? I don't understand.

zebanovich wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 1:23 pm

varangy wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:49 am Any weapon with the type of seeking or area will ignore fire arcs.

Thanks, I didn't pay attention to that.

zgrssd wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:39 pm Area weapons "only" have a large explosion when they hit. They are not a 360° AoE effect around the ship!
But all Area effect weapons I know are also seeking, so they kinda ignore it too.

How are area weapons not 360? I don't understand.

Area Weapons are just missiles with a Blast Area. That is all.

They still have to leave the launcher and then do a turn like all other missiles.

So "area" means they do area damage but only where it hits, didn't know this. thanks.

If you use lot's of area weapons you need to try and use a standoff method to engage the enemy or you will tend to hit your own ships as well. Also use fighters with long range weapons too.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:26 pm If you use lot's of area weapons you need to try and use a standoff method to engage the enemy or you will tend to hit your own ships as well. Also use fighters with long range weapons too.

That's what I always wondered about, but I never bothered because I use area weapons only on spaceports and defense bases, where there aren't any of my ships so it's free to fire all around as it wants.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:26 pm If you use lot's of area weapons you need to try and use a standoff method to engage the enemy or you will tend to hit your own ships as well. Also use fighters with long range weapons too.

With the small blast areas involved, the chance to hit any 2 spaceships is basically 0.

Hitting several Strikecraft? Oh, entirely possible. Even highly likely. They tend to stack.
But multiple space ships? Nope, it is not going to happen. They keep distances way in excess of the area of effect.

zgrssd wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:23 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:26 pm If you use lot's of area weapons you need to try and use a standoff method to engage the enemy or you will tend to hit your own ships as well. Also use fighters with long range weapons too.

With the small blast areas involved, the chance to hit any 2 spaceships is basically 0.

Hitting several Strikecraft? Oh, entirely possible. Even highly likely. They tend to stack.
But multiple space ships? Nope, it is not going to happen. They keep distances way in excess of the area of effect.

Doesn't this depend on fleet formation? if ships are formed tight then IDK.

zebanovich wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:57 pm

zgrssd wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:23 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:26 pm If you use lot's of area weapons you need to try and use a standoff method to engage the enemy or you will tend to hit your own ships as well. Also use fighters with long range weapons too.

With the small blast areas involved, the chance to hit any 2 spaceships is basically 0.

Hitting several Strikecraft? Oh, entirely possible. Even highly likely. They tend to stack.
But multiple space ships? Nope, it is not going to happen. They keep distances way in excess of the area of effect.

Doesn't this depend on fleet formation? if ships are formed tight then IDK.

The tightest formation I ever saw - the distances where ships suddenly have to stop to avoid collisions - still around as big as the Blast Radius.

I get why people think that might be a issue in theory - but once you realize the kind of spacing ships have to keep or be stopped, you realize it won't really mater. Unless there is some blast in the 1000 range somewhere I have never reached.

zgrssd wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:24 pm

zebanovich wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:57 pm

zgrssd wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:23 pm
With the small blast areas involved, the chance to hit any 2 spaceships is basically 0.

Hitting several Strikecraft? Oh, entirely possible. Even highly likely. They tend to stack.
But multiple space ships? Nope, it is not going to happen. They keep distances way in excess of the area of effect.

Doesn't this depend on fleet formation? if ships are formed tight then IDK.

The tightest formation I ever saw - the distances where ships suddenly have to stop to avoid collisions - still around as big as the Blast Radius.

I get why people think that might be a issue in theory - but once you realize the kind of spacing ships have to keep or be stopped, you realize it won't really mater. Unless there is some blast in the 1000 range somewhere I have never reached.

Interesting, I always avoided area weapons because of (apparently unwarranted) concern from friendly fire damage. I'll have to check out their stats to see where they could be useful. Though based on what you said, it affects friendly fighters. I'm gonna have to do some experiments.

If a Blast Weapon hits a fighter swarm, it both has the damage and blast area to deal some serious damage.

Firing Blast Weapons on ships surrounded by allied fighters can turn out in one of two ways:
1. If they still have the bug where they stack in the center of the enemy model, they get hit. They also might no longer fire, that is why the bug was so bad.
2. If they swarm freely around the enemy, they should be entirely fine. 5% of the swarm being hit will not relevantly reduce damage output.

zgrssd wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:24 pm

zebanovich wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:57 pm

zgrssd wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:23 pm
With the small blast areas involved, the chance to hit any 2 spaceships is basically 0.

Hitting several Strikecraft? Oh, entirely possible. Even highly likely. They tend to stack.
But multiple space ships? Nope, it is not going to happen. They keep distances way in excess of the area of effect.

Doesn't this depend on fleet formation? if ships are formed tight then IDK.

The tightest formation I ever saw - the distances where ships suddenly have to stop to avoid collisions - still around as big as the Blast Radius.

I get why people think that might be a issue in theory - but once you realize the kind of spacing ships have to keep or be stopped, you realize it won't really mater. Unless there is some blast in the 1000 range somewhere I have never reached.

I have had area effect weapons hit my own ships many times... this happens when they get right up against an enemy ship and there are incoming area fire weapons.

Are you saying I did not experience what I experienced...

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:28 am

zgrssd wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:24 pm

zebanovich wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:57 pm

Doesn't this depend on fleet formation? if ships are formed tight then IDK.

The tightest formation I ever saw - the distances where ships suddenly have to stop to avoid collisions - still around as big as the Blast Radius.

I get why people think that might be a issue in theory - but once you realize the kind of spacing ships have to keep or be stopped, you realize it won't really mater. Unless there is some blast in the 1000 range somewhere I have never reached.

I have had area effect weapons hit my own ships many times... this happens when they get right up against an enemy ship and there are incoming area fire weapons.

Are you saying I did not experience what I experienced...

I would need to see the exact conditions that happened in.

Start with where you found a weapon with close to 1000 blast radius.

Having weapons ... poses the risk of friendly fire. Civilian ships with weapons? Private sector caveat emptor.

zgrssd wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:28 am

zgrssd wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:24 pm
The tightest formation I ever saw - the distances where ships suddenly have to stop to avoid collisions - still around as big as the Blast Radius.

I get why people think that might be a issue in theory - but once you realize the kind of spacing ships have to keep or be stopped, you realize it won't really mater. Unless there is some blast in the 1000 range somewhere I have never reached.

I have had area effect weapons hit my own ships many times... this happens when they get right up against an enemy ship and there are incoming area fire weapons.

Are you saying I did not experience what I experienced...

I would need to see the exact conditions that happened in.

Start with where you found a weapon with close to 1000 blast radius.

Even just the starting area weapons will cause friendly fire, especially if you also have ships with short range weapons and are on aggressive behaviour. Your friendly ship might get very close to the enemy ship and not every shot with an area weapon will hit so some of the misses will hit your own ships, no other weapons do that.

Trust me... this has happened to me.

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:32 pm

zgrssd wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:28 am

I have had area effect weapons hit my own ships many times... this happens when they get right up against an enemy ship and there are incoming area fire weapons.

Are you saying I did not experience what I experienced...

I would need to see the exact conditions that happened in.

Start with where you found a weapon with close to 1000 blast radius.

Even just the starting area weapons will cause friendly fire, especially if you also have ships with short range weapons and are on aggressive behaviour. Your friendly ship might get very close to the enemy ship and not every shot with an area weapon will hit so some of the misses will hit your own ships, no other weapons do that.

Trust me... this has happened to me.

Did it happen in any relevant number of cases?
Did you check if the attack actually deal damage to your friendly ship?

You are crafting some nice theories. But how hard are those situations to create?

zgrssd wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:24 pm

Jorgen_CAB wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:32 pm

zgrssd wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm
I would need to see the exact conditions that happened in.

Start with where you found a weapon with close to 1000 blast radius.

Even just the starting area weapons will cause friendly fire, especially if you also have ships with short range weapons and are on aggressive behaviour. Your friendly ship might get very close to the enemy ship and not every shot with an area weapon will hit so some of the misses will hit your own ships, no other weapons do that.

Trust me... this has happened to me.

Did it happen in any relevant number of cases?
Did you check if the attack actually deal damage to your friendly ship?

You are crafting some nice theories. But how hard are those situations to create?

It did happen often enough I had to change stances and fleet composition to avoid it.

Ships with aggressive tactics combined with rail guns will be subject to possible friendly fire - if accompanied by in fleet ships with area weapons. I'd refer to the Feet Admiral's integrity, or the player's choice of combined designs. But in engagements who knows what can happen!

I've seen Ion Pulse area ordinance hit the ship it fired from (possibly due to a successful counter measure).