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Hi,

I cannot find specific rules for how a UK surrender is governed, other than a few posts on how the UK seems to no longer surrender.

A UK surrender does not seem to follow other Major country surrender rules. Section 7.5.1. states "The chance that it will carry on fighting depends on the number of units it has left within its own borders". What are the borders of the UK? Just England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland? Or, are also Gibraltar, Malta and maybe other locations included? Even then, the will to fight should not change that much, if the UK proper is occupied.

Am I just unlucky in the "roll of the dice", or are there other surrender variables for the UK?

Here is my situation:

27 September, 1940 UK NM = 83%
- Cities captured during Jul-Aug 1940: Plymouth, Bristol, Cardiff, Birmingham, Cambridge, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle, Reading, Portsmouth
- Cities captured this turn: Norwich, London and Edinburgh
- UK capital moved to Australia
- 3 land units in UK: Corps in Maidstone, Tac Bombers in Glasgow, Garrison in Belfast
- Will to fight = 3 (for Major) x number of units within its borders x NM = 3 x 3 x .83 = 7.47%

25 October, 1940 UK NM = 71%
- Captured all remaining cities in England and Scotland: Maidstone, Aberdeen and Inverness; only Belfast and Scapa Flow are unoccupied
- 1 land unit in UK: Garrison in Belfast
- Will to fight = 3 x 1 x .71 = 2.13%

Still no UK surrender when I complete the October turn. And, the US prepares for war. I guess that would bump up UK NM. USSR mobilization is at 54%.

Spain and Hungary also join the Axis, as the US prepares for war. At least, the Axis gain easier access to Gibraltar. Malta's 2 ports are at "0" supply, although Malta itself is at "5" supply. Turkey mobilization is at 67%. Afrika Korps has just deployed.

Since I don't know what it takes to get a UK surrender, I am unsure how to proceed. If not possible to get a UK surrender, I would think destroying the Royal Navy is of paramount importance, while it's still around the UK and I can use the UK as a base for the Luftwaffe. The Royal Navy has already lost 1x CV, 1x BB, 2x CL and 5x DD. Striking at Malta and Gibraltar is probably second priority and then Egypt... All the while racing to prepare for Barbarossa, which is most likely early due to Operation Sealion. I wonder if I can have fries with all that?

Thanks for the help!

When the UK moves it’s Capital to either Australia or Canada then you will need to capture that

“We will never surrender “

I see. Basically, Operation Sealion has pretty much become Mission Impossible. Plus, no short-term return on investment (ie: no UK plunder, other than the pennies the Axis get for London).

I suppose it remains to be seen if the removal of the UK economy from the Allied ledger (and some of it being added to the Axis ledger) is worth waking up the 2 giants really early. Probably early US/USSR mobilization compensates for the hole left by the absent UK economy. Operation Sealion may only be viable against the AI.

I see several aspects of my version of Operation Sealion that can be improved, now that I better understand the game mechanics.

1. With the Battle of France still raging (but winding down), pull the units for the initial Sealion wave aside, to reinforce/upgrade (I launched Sealion in July 1940, after 2 turns where all invasion forces idled for reinforcements/upgrades). I guess it's key to blend the following campaign into the existing one, to eliminate periods of idleness.

2. No diplomacy on Spain and Turkey, since Spanish activation moves US mobilization. Besides, having troops close to London/Manchester will move the mobilization for both Spain and Turkey, on its own. No diplomacy saves MPPs and maybe delays Spanish activation until after US entry, instead of being the last nail that causes it.

3. Japan needs to prepare for the Pacific war from the beginning, and possibly scale back plans in China. I was thinking Operation Sealion would advance US entry by maybe 6 months, not 12.

At any rate, this is a newbie's take, and although possibly dreaming in technicolour, will give it a try and see where it leads.

I think I can vaguely remember that if the capital is moved to a city unconnected via rail, then the whole production queue is lost. If this is the case, then surrendering the UK early, cuts down the Royal Navy and RAF quite a bit.
It is possible that I am completely mistaken here.

Laurenz wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:46 pm I think I can vaguely remember that if the capital is moved to a city unconnected via rail, then the whole production queue is lost. If this is the case, then surrendering the UK early, cuts down the Royal Navy and RAF quite a bit.
It is possible that I am completely mistaken here.

I have not gone mad. On page 145 of the manual it says:
"A country whose Capital transfers will lose its current Production
Queue items unless the new Capital is connected to either the location of
the previous Capital, or to any of the Industrial Center locations for that
country. So the UK will lose its units in the Production Queue if its Capital
transfers abroad (e.g. to Canada), while the USSR will be very unlikely to
lose any should its Capital transfer to Kuybyshev or Perm, as they are
connected by land to Moscow."

Note that it says connected, so I guess rails are not needed...maybe connected as within the same borders?

You are correct. Right after the UK capital moved to Australia, I do remember seeing the message "Production is lost".

I loaded my previous saved games and compared the UK builds and, indeed, every UK build due after the capital moved overseas is gone from the production queue. The UK has not surrendered, but the following units were wiped out: 1x CV, 3x BB, 2x Fighters and 1x Corps.

However, it's potential builds remain the same. Should this not be reduced, to reflect the loss of manpower, manufacturing capacity and shipyards?

is so easy to surrender UK

i had saves from 1941, 1942 , 1943.. many of them

get Edimburg first, then Manchester and finally London (you have to do it upside down, never take London at first., AGAIN; London when you have Edimburg and Manchester) no more than 6 turns you should ; if you take more turns then happens civilian brits revolutions at ports which blow up Axis supplyes

I did not take London first. I took Manchester first and then Edinburgh + London on the next turn.

I replayed a couple of turns to change the sequence of capture, where I first captured Edinburgh/Manchester and then London on the following turn. Same result: the UK capital moves to Australia and no UK surrender.

It looks like this "easy UK surrender" loophole may have been closed. Has anybody succeeded with the latest v1.15 patch?

well try to get edimburg first and then Manchester and London at the same time.

for sure it changes with last pacht, i have last pacht at STEAM i will check

The devs should talk about it, but who knows the AI on this game is impredectable, do things new learning the human way of play

That's why i always have a Vanilla 1.00. so the devs can not change things that should not be change

as player of Uncommon valour, WITP ,Admiral edition and war in the east, i can tell you that SC - AI ,beat them because the Devs make a good vanilla 1.00. better than the mentioned games the AI is even more criminal than WITP and thats is to say to much

at Vanilla UK surrender if London falls after Edimburg and Manchester which is correct once it changes to australia, japan can do the work, Sidney is easy to take once you get Darwin, british units move to retake Darwin by slowly path land. but send a german unit to Sidney, more dificult is, if moves to Canada the Uk Capital.

lucr41 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:22 pm I did not take London first. I took Manchester first and then Edinburgh + London on the next turn.

I replayed a couple of turns to change the sequence of capture, where I first captured Edinburgh/Manchester and then London on the following turn. Same result: the UK capital moves to Australia and no UK surrender.

It looks like this "easy UK surrender" loophole may have been closed. Has anybody succeeded with the latest v1.15 patch?

Probably the AI has learn in your game that has to move to australia anywayyou try to retake and change the result startagain the operation lion in a new game

THE SC AI learns not to cheat human so if the AI detects the cheating human is always the same result . am afraid you teach the AI to move to australia, for sure you have to teach the AI to surrender once edimburg is taken amd manchester at second time, then London, teach the AI to do so

your cuestion is.... if it can be forced to surrender UK by the AI, yes it can be forced at LONDON for sure

but there is a chance of units alive....so you better, also... destroy Englander units as much as you can to surrender at LONDON.

Not clear Allies can come back from this (UK surrendering and moving). Anyone do so successfully?

ThunderLizard11 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:55 pm Not clear Allies can come back from this (UK surrendering and moving). Anyone do so successfully?

Only once

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