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Hi, game is great but i find it a tad unrealistic.

In Multiplayer i am winning all my games as axis and losing most of games as allies. It is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid Russia fall if axis player simply play it safe.

Why game has been balanced this way ? Historically Russia outproduced Germany from 42 on and had a 2:1 advantage on armies from Stalingrad on. In multiplayer it looks almost impossible frankly speaking.

Part of this is imo due to severely lower than historical MPP for Russia making it impossible to build a decent army. In addition, the supply system is broken. You see german armies with 8 supply in Caucasus...maybe taking out all railroads south of Rostoc would maybe help making the Caucasus closer to the logistic mess that was in real war?

On the other hand, it seems US a tad overpowered. By '43 they are a fully teched jaggernaut which i think is a little unhistorical. Maybe shifting MPP from US to SU would fix both problems ? like Russia getting additional 100 MPP per turn (and US 100MPP less ?).

Is the US sending supplies to the USSR via both Persia and Vladivostok in your games?

Together with the UK's convoy - providing it's not being heavily raided - the USSR should be getting a hefty amount of MPPs from both countries.

Any decent Axis player takes Vladivostock as soon as Japan enters the conflict or few turns later, it's quite easy so that part of MMP is never really available for SU. It's just impossible for SU to hold Vladivostock.

Japan attacking SU raises China morale but considering China is another unhistorical walkover, it is a little penalty as China by mid '42 is already doomed with Japanese 3 stars Armies killing in 2/3 shots Chinese armies with zero losses.

Persia is lost too once Axis takes Baku.

In one MP in feb '43 SU holds still Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad (so i would say pretty well), but lost Vladivostock and Baku. Allies hold NA and conquered Ethiopia. SU has 400 MPP give or take, Germany is running at twice as that.


To be clear, if i was just losing as allies i would think it is my fault. But when i play axis is the same (this time with me enjoying axis power though). Germany basically outproduce SU in almost every game, and considering SU losses are 2/3 times higher than Axis at any given time considering that SU can barely replace losses (so no spare MPP to keep up with tech) it simply never feels like it was in real conflict where germans were outnumbered since late '42.

Would be nice to hear the feedback of other players.

Well, Allies have been strengthened over the past 2 years of game development to the point where they have 60:40 outcome balance. I still a believe that Fafnir as Axis would beat Fafnir as Allies but I would like a top player to confirm that.

I’d like to see rail gauges play a part so that conquered eastern cities on a USSR gauge cannot grow beyond 5.
Also I think the supply range for HQ boosting is too great. A boosted HQ should not be able to take in supply 1 and distribute supply 8.
This should be supply in 5 distribution out 8 imho.
It would force a sharper pivot point to eastern operations.

EarlyDoors wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:39 pm Well, Allies have been strengthened over the past 2 years of game development to the point where they have 60:40 outcome balance. I still a believe that Fafnir as Axis would beat Fafnir as Allies but I would like a top player to confirm that.

I’d like to see rail gauges play a part so that conquered eastern cities on a USSR gauge cannot grow beyond 5.
Also I think the supply range for HQ boosting is too great. A boosted HQ should not be able to take in supply 1 and distribute supply 8.
This should be supply in 5 distribution out 8 imho.
It would force a sharper pivot point to eastern operations.

My point is that a decent Axis player can easily beat Russia. You take (Vladivostock (mid'42) Caucasus (mid'42) and then SU gets 400 MPP per turn assuming an UK convoy not scratched (and it is pretty easy for Germany to block it, you move 2 maritime bombers+navy and there is really nothing UK can do up to '43 to free it). And there is absolutely nothing that the Allies can do to prevent that.

So the main game looks really "weird" if you compare to historic. SU is NEVER in the position to hurt the Wermacht while in reality SU was the main hitter on German troops.

IMO the main point would be to reduce the MPP coming from convyes and giving the same amount to SU. Cause that is the main unhistorical and weird point: SU is always, in any mp game, getting half the german MPP and that affect their chances to hold. Cause as SU you can0t research, you can't build anything other than replacing losses. You usually get in '43 with Germany having 20/30 units more that SU and that is nuts.

So I looked further at this and was surprised to see that

"A well established predictor of military victory in great power warfare is GDP (Gross Domestic Product)."[16] Soviet Union's GDP is significantly lower when compared to the axis countries in Europe.“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_in ... rld_War_II

I had always thought the USSR had massively out produced the Axis but maybe that wasn’t the case.

EarlyDoors wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:51 am So I looked further at this and was surprised to see that

"A well established predictor of military victory in great power warfare is GDP (Gross Domestic Product)."[16] Soviet Union's GDP is significantly lower when compared to the axis countries in Europe.“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_in ... rld_War_II

I had always thought the USSR had massively out produced the Axis but maybe that wasn’t the case.

This is the statistic of World War 2 production:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... rld_War_II

Aircraft:
US & UK:477k
SU: 136k
Germany: 133k
Japan: 64k
In the game, Germany has like 5:1 air power to SU (SU simply hasn't MPP to build any air). After Stalingrad luftwaffe was simply unable to have air superiority. In how many games SU is able to have some kind of air power to match Axis ? zero.

Tank:
US & UK: 150k
SU: 136k
Germany: 67k
In the game, you see Germany attacking with 6/8 Panzer Corps...SU if they can muster half of that is a lot...

GDP:
Allies 97,707,908,723 k$
Axis: 10,268,201,776 k$

Forces on Eastern Front:
SU had 2:1 since mid '43, 4:1 by late '43


Now i get this isn't an historical simulation, but as it is honestly it is weird. How can you play decent multiplayer games if a decent axis player can knock out Russia and China almost always? These results historically were impossible to do, in this game given equal ability by players is a 90% event.

Yes I find this sentence telling from the wiki article I posted

When looking at military production of the Soviet Union and the Axis countries in Europe it is clear that whilst there exists a gap in GDP and resources extracted, there is an almost equal amount of military weapons being produced. This is largely to do with the way Soviets designed and mass-produced weapons.

Which implies to me that the mpps in the game are probably ok but the Soviets were able to produce units at a much cheaper rate.
This can probably be modelled by having a lower unit cost or starting with an additional level of Production Technology

EarlyDoors wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:14 am Yes I find this sentence telling from the wiki article I posted

When looking at military production of the Soviet Union and the Axis countries in Europe it is clear that whilst there exists a gap in GDP and resources extracted, there is an almost equal amount of military weapons being produced. This is largely to do with the way Soviets designed and mass-produced weapons.

Which implies to me that the mpps in the game are probably ok but the Soviets were able to produce units at a much cheaper rate.
This can probably be modelled by having a lower unit cost or starting with an additional level of Production Technology

1 lvl of production is 5%..it hardly matters when SU can produce half the germans in any multiplayer game.

kaigab wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:30 pm

EarlyDoors wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:14 am Yes I find this sentence telling from the wiki article I posted

When looking at military production of the Soviet Union and the Axis countries in Europe it is clear that whilst there exists a gap in GDP and resources extracted, there is an almost equal amount of military weapons being produced. This is largely to do with the way Soviets designed and mass-produced weapons.

Which implies to me that the mpps in the game are probably ok but the Soviets were able to produce units at a much cheaper rate.
This can probably be modelled by having a lower unit cost or starting with an additional level of Production Technology

1 lvl of production is 5%..it hardly matters when SU can produce half the germans in any multiplayer game.

Are you playing good allied players? That might be the determining factor. USSR should be getting 1000 MPP after the Uk convoy and American aid. China normally comes back to hit Japan with Soviet aid. Just my two cents.

SU also "produces" more in this game considering many more units are buybacks at a discount.

In my personal fun mod I gave USSR a ton more units (Gave Germany some units too, but way more to USSR):
+1 starting Production Tech
Added one fighters in May 1942 (high quantity of P39s, Hurricanes etc by this time from lend lease)
Added a couple heavy artillery units in 1940 and 1941 (USSR was the KING of artillery)
Added a couple extra AA units (USSR was never short on 37mm flak)
Added another rocket artillery in Nov 1941 (self explanatory)
Added Tank corps (Oct 1942, Soviets built a ridiculous number of tanks)

As well as numerous historical armies and corps:
Added 5th Army near Vinnitsa
Added 9th corps near Krasnodar
Added 6th Army in Zhitomir
Added 25th Army to queue (Mar 41)
Added 1st and 2nd Shock Armies to queue (Nov, Dec 41)
Added 50th Army to queue (15 Aug 41, str 5, full research)
Added 62th Army to queue (May 42, full research)
Added 64th Army to queue (Apr 42, full research)
Added 33rd Army to queue (July 41, str 5, near Moscow)
16th Army now arrives July 40 instead of Sept 41 (historically deployed in far east)
43rd army now arrives July 41 instead of Dec 41 (fought at Smolensk)

I also beefed up USSR resources a bit:
Kazan changed from town to city +8
Zhitomir changed from village to town +2
Orsk changed from village to town +2
Added Tambov town +2
Ufa from town to city +8
Vladivostok from city to fortress -10

While I'm going nuts I might as well mention some other misc changes I made to USSR for fun:

Moved 10th Army from Ukraine to Moscow (it was just forming around Moscow in Sept 1939)
Damaged USSR units and Japan army near Manzhouli and gave them some experience (Battle of Khalkhin Gol)
Remove CL Chernova Ukrania and CL Krasnyi Krim as they both only represent one ship (others of same class were scrapped, incomplete, or converted), replace with CL Molotov or Voroshilov str 10
Remove DD from production queue, possibly place it in Black Sea strength 5?
Moved Voronezh from 132, 39 to 131,38 - further west one hex, and lengthened the Don river one hex west (altered road and rail network accordingly)
Added Tambov as a town @ 134, 37 and altered road/rail to travel from Voronezh to Tambov and head to Saratov

#Consider adding +1 submarine to Baltic Fleet
#Considering adding a second city hex for Stalingrad
#Consider making Barnaul a town or even a city (large ammunition production center)
#Consider Khabarovsk as a town instead of village (gulag production in the area)
#Consider Orsk as a town instead of village