Matrix Games Forums

In the replay of this recording, you will notice that German subs on Silent Mode cruising through a UK Maritime Bmbrs passive spotting range are visible. Once the replay is over they are invisible of course. I have noticed before in the other SC games I believe. Is this WAD?
I seem to remember a discussion of this subject before. Also, I do realize that when subs are in silent mode...that with the time duration of a turn, they do have to resurface from time to time to charge batteries replenish bad air etc.

Anyways, here's a link to the YT recording that goes direct to the replay events concerning this topic: https://youtu.be/Hi209z5neMU?t=327

btw this is part of the TRP-WiE MP beta test I am involved with...but I believe I have seen this before, particularly with SC-WW1
Cheers

Mike

Good catch and definitely not working as designed, I'll look into this and apply any necessary corrections for the next update.

Thanks,
Hubert

Not so sure how I feel about this.
I'm not a fan of allowing subs in silent mode to be immune from spotting unless you happen to stumble into them; at which point you tend to take horrific damage.

Maybe reduce or remove the sub ambush bonus if in silent mode if you are going to eliminate passive spotting of them.
The sub is trying to avoid detection when in silent mode, not laying an ambush.

But then, I probably have a jaded view, as I dislike the naval system in its entirety.

Taxman66 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:28 pm Not so sure how I feel about this.
I'm not a fan of allowing subs in silent mode to be immune from spotting unless you happen to stumble into them; at which point you tend to take horrific damage.

Maybe reduce or remove the sub ambush bonus if in silent mode if you are going to eliminate passive spotting of them.
The sub is trying to avoid detection when in silent mode, not laying an ambush.

But then, I probably have a jaded view, as I dislike the naval system in its entirety.

I don't know I kinda like to see subs ambush an unsuspecting unit. This is how I see sub warfare. If you are in raider then yes the spotting is fine because they are aggressively looking for targets, you know they are on the convoy line etc.. If running silent then they are avoiding detection so no spotting. But if a unit happens to run into the sub well then the sub unit seizes the opportunity and strikes first. I think spotting overall is a bit much but then again I like surprises especially when my opponent is on the receiving end. My deviant 2 cents worth.

Just a thought to keep in mind:

GE sub crew casualty percentage throughout the war was 86% (iirc). A large portion of that was due to being spotted by planes. Subs of this era spent a majority of their time on the surface.

The rate of sub encounters with capital ships during the war was exceptionally low. In this game they actively hunt the big ships.

Do. Not. Like.

Subs got quite a few capital ships in the war-off the top of my head:

Royal Oak
Barham
Ark Royal
Eagle
Wasp
Shinano
Taiho
Shokaku

This does not include the numerous times they spotted them but were unable to launch a successful attack, nor the ones which damaged but did not destroy the target (c.f. the Saratoga, 2-3 times iirc).

Elessar2 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:37 am Subs got quite a few capital ships in the war-off the top of my head:

Royal Oak
Barham
Ark Royal
Eagle
Wasp
Shinano
Taiho
Shokaku

This does not include the numerous times they spotted them but were unable to launch a successful attack, nor the ones which damaged but did not destroy the target (c.f. the Saratoga, 2-3 times iirc).

U-boats sank 175 naval vessels of all types during the war. 2/3 of the 1,212 U-boats were sunk during the war. In the beginning of the war they were able to really constrict the supplies heading to England. As the war went on and aircraft and radar were widely used against them they were forced to stay underwater longer. The Germans were forced to improve their underwater performance.

I don't disagree with Taxman66 that the Allies got better at finding the U-boats as the war went on. But in early game it seems like the subs aren't as effective as they were in the war itself.

So if changes were made to spot subs better than I would counter balance with Allied Strat bombers do not take as many losses as in the real war itself. Some may or may not agree with this. B-17 crews only averaged 11 missions before being shot down. 60% percent of RAF crews were killed, wounded or captured.

Before the latest patch Subs were super easy to catch.
But now.... Not only do they not lose supplies when being attacked (ok fine) - they also do not lose supplies if they shoot back and inflict damage. Thats a bit silly.

At least now one probably needs to go for at least Anti Submarine Warfare 1

Yes, I have also been pondering retaining no supply consumption when under attack, but in order to “compensate” for this, as it were, by removing any “naval defence” values from submarines, so while defending themselves they cannot cause damage to attacking naval units… This arrangement seems more coherent with no supply consumption for defending submarines.

In addition, giving subs a base 50% (max 5 levels of Advanced Subs) or even a 60% base dive chance (max 4 levels of Advanced Subs), as well as restricting Anti-Submarine Warfare to only Destroyers, Escort Destroyers (modded from Motor Torpedo Boats), Escort Carriers and Naval (Maritime) Bombers, as a compensation for all the above.