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I am in the process of trying to learn to play as Japan using Scenario 1, historical turn off. I have been testing various combinations of air attacks for turn 1 for Malaya and have noticed an odd pattern. If I make any changes to the air groups allocated by the Game to the TFZ attack, such as altitude, changing night to day attack, or setting other targets for some of the units, there is no strike on TFZ at all. This has happened over 12 turn 1 tests.

What could be causing this?

Jus to clarify...what you mean with TFZ?

The TF containing Repulse and Prince of Wales off Mersing

Sorry, may be a bit more explanation needed. When I start the Scenario 1 game and view the air groups in Saigon there are 4 or 5 Betty and Nell units assigned to Naval attack which results in them attacking the Prince of Wales TF if I leave them unchanged (don't change altitude, etc.). If I do change any of the presets in one or more of the units, as mentioned above, these groups do not attack at all.

tonyp118 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:57 am What could be causing this?

Turning the historical turn off could be causing this. I seem to recall from memory that if you turn the historical turn option off, then Force Z doesn't sortie like they did historically either.

Yea, it most likely caused by turning the Historical First turn off.

If you'd want to change those orders and retain Historical First Turn, you'll have to change the orders of air units in editor. That by itself is not too difficult if just changing air unit orders/altitudes etc.

There is also one thing, you cannot save over (overwrite) official scenarios, they are protected. Thus, when you make changes in editor to e.g. Scen 1, you need to save the edited scenario to a different scenario slot outside the range of official scenario slots.

tonyp118 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:57 am I am in the process of trying to learn to play as Japan using Scenario 1, historical turn off. I have been testing various combinations of air attacks for turn 1 for Malaya and have noticed an odd pattern. If I make any changes to the air groups allocated by the Game to the TFZ attack, such as altitude, changing night to day attack, or setting other targets for some of the units, there is no strike on TFZ at all. This has happened over 12 turn 1 tests.

What could be causing this?

Search.

Task Force Z:
https://thediplomat.com/2020/12/the-rea ... f-force-z/

In Scenario 1 many of the long range bombers in Indochina start in naval attack
but do not typically have a search percentage set.

You need to set your bombers with a search percentage….I like 30%.
Without a search percentage set it is very hard to detect targets outside
of of the 4 Hex range.

Force Z only has 6 ships which make it hard to detect...especially at long range.

Below….I set a group to single sector search, 30 percent, reduced the
altitude to 10,000 feet and decreased the range to 11 hexes.

I got a long range detection and attack at a range of 10 Hexes.

Notice how the search arcs just barely touch the Hex where Force Z is located.

Many thanks everyone

Turning off night search is also a bad idea. If you want your air attack to launch in the morning air phase, you must detect the target in the night phase. If weather is bad in the morning the attack can still happen in the afternoon air phase. So you get two chances for detection and attack from the night/morning search as opposed to one chance if search is only done in the morning air phase.

Apologies guys but being a bit dumb on this one and English not my first language so would like to stretch your patience and test my understanding.

If I want to set up Japanese units as I prefer (so historical turn off) I should leave the two air groups in Saigon on night attack but be able to define the search arc and adjust range and altitudes to more realistic levels in order to increase chance of finding and attacking Force Z?

tonyp118 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:27 pm Apologies guys but being a bit dumb on this one and English not my first language so would like to stretch your patience and test my understanding.

If I want to set up Japanese units as I prefer (so historical turn off) I should leave the two air groups in Saigon on night attack but be able to define the search arc and adjust range and altitudes to more realistic levels in order to increase chance of finding and attacking Force Z?

No.

You won’t be able to set naval search or attack at night for your bombers.

You can set naval attack and search at night for your float planes (Mavis)
I don’t search at night because of low probability of success.

What I would do in your case is first use the Air headquarters at
Saigon and buy lots of torpedoes.

Then set the Betty group at Saigon to naval torpedo attack at 10,000
feet with naval search set to 30 or 40 percent day search.
Reduce the range so that the hexes around Kuantan are covered

I would not even use the search arcs, just set naval search.

Then set all the bombers at Saigon the same way.

Then set the Mavis at Patani to 100% day search
6,000 feet and reduce the range so that the hexes
around Kuantan are covered.

Wait three days and see if you get a detection and attack
on Task Force Z like I did. (Below)

Note: this is not a sure thing.

Got it, I think!. Will give it a try. Once again many thanks for the help. After playing Allies for several years I thought I was beginning to understand this game. Seems Japan a whole new set of interesting challenges!

tonyp118 wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:21 am Got it, I think!. Will give it a try. Once again many thanks for the help. After playing Allies for several years I thought I was beginning to understand this game. Seems Japan a whole new set of interesting challenges!

Wait until you get into production....

tonyp118 wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:21 am ... Seems Japan a whole new set of interesting challenges!...

For all purposes and concepts playing Japan is a whole separate game entirely.

The game play can correctly be labeled “expert” for Japan alone.

As Trugrit said...playing Japan adds another game into game...