Matrix Games Forums

Describe your requirements for this operational level game.

To play as Coalition (Prussia, Austria, Russia).

Avalon Digital is releasing a digital version of War and Peace next August, are you aware of this news?
Other than being an operational class, what other concepts can you offer that are different from War and Peace?

ham17 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:40 am Avalon Digital is releasing a digital version of War and Peace next August, are you aware of this news?
Other than being an operational class, what other concepts can you offer that are different from War and Peace?

Very Cool! The War and Peace boardgame was a strategic level game so I think we are safe in our small 1813 operational space. Do you have a link to Avalon Digital that you can share? Sounds like a great addition to computer gaming.

So everybody knows my view of the world...

Strategic Level is establishing/implementing/overseeing war policy ("Europe First...").
Operational Level is the planning and execution of policy (Overlord, Market-Garden, etc.).
Tactical Level is the tactics, techniques and procedures involved with the execution of operational level plans (Shock, stacking limits, zones of control, bombardment, counterair, interdiction, etc.).

1813: Napoleon's Last German Campaign is an operational level game that also enables the player to explore the tactical level within the context of the operational level. Like all Kevin Zucker Napoleonic games, 1813: Napoleon's Last German Campaign has no specific tactical level (no cavalry charges, counter-charges, squares, columns, lines, etc.)--it's an operational game.

War and Peace
https://www.war-and-peace-game.com/

Besides the classic Wargamer Napoleon 1813.





It was also a scenario in Ageod Napoleon's Campaigns, it started in August 1813 after the armistice. Besides central Europe, the map also included the Italian Peninsula.




Ages ago Frank Hunter was supposedly interested in it, but...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p3529202


And at the tactical level there were two John Tiller, now WDS games, Campaigns Bautzen and Leipzig.




Could find 2 boardgames. Allemagne 1813 in the series Jours de gloire. And 1813: Napoleon's Nemesis by Europa Simulazioni. This one has a vertical map with Northern Italy.

ham17 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:46 am War and Peace
https://www.war-and-peace-game.com/

Ouch! Is this a Mac only game? Saw they have a demo, but screeched to a halt when I saw I needed a Mac computer.

Nikel wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:34 am Besides the classic Wargamer Napoleon 1813.

Yes. I bought this game way back when. It was the first game I ever tried to mod. Inspired me to learn to code. Got involved with the open source coding but nothing ever came of it. Would love to see this game come to the world of 2022. The game under the hood contained a great rule set. The top-side crashed too often to attract a dedicated group of players.

bcgames wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:55 am

ham17 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:46 am War and Peace
https://www.war-and-peace-game.com/

Ouch! Is this a Mac only game? Saw they have a demo, but screeched to a halt when I saw I needed a Mac computer.

If you look closely, there is also a Windows Demo.
In fact, I have activated the Windows Demo.

Ah! Found it. Downloading... Thanks!

Ideally I would love a game without a God's eye view. If we are talking Napoleonic warfare then I would really like to see extensive fog of war, also regarding friendly units, a lot of order delay and subordinates that may or may not execute the orders as intended.

kch wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:39 am Ideally I would love a game without a God's eye view. If we are talking Napoleonic warfare then I would really like to see extensive fog of war, also regarding friendly units, a lot of order delay and subordinates that may or may not execute the orders as intended.

Serious question. Have you played WEGOWW2? All of these elements are part of the current engine. What are we getting wrong?

1813: Napoleon's Last German Campaign was the poll winner. Voters for this topic who have played WEGOWW2--please describe your desired operational experience--knowing what the engine is currently capable of delivering.

bcgames wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:10 am

kch wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:39 am Ideally I would love a game without a God's eye view. If we are talking Napoleonic warfare then I would really like to see extensive fog of war, also regarding friendly units, a lot of order delay and subordinates that may or may not execute the orders as intended.

Serious question. Have you played WEGOWW2? All of these elements are part of the current engine. What are we getting wrong?

I havent actually and I should have made that clear in the comment. I was simply looking to buy the game and saw this thread, and wanted to chip in in general terms. It is great news that all these things are present, especially if looking to model Napoleonic warfare.

Ah. Fair enough.

bcgames, have you played Frank Hunter's Campaigns on the Danube 1805-1809?

It is also operational and highly considered by the Napoleonic fans.


Regarding bibliography, probably James R. Arnold is the best reference, however so far only covers the spring campaign and is expensive.

https://napoleonbooks.com/napoleon-1813 ... t-bautzen/


Nafziger trilogy has been republished by Helion.

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69


Also found this page with interesting maps, only spring.

http://www.napoleonsims.com/blog/post005.htm

Nikel wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:39 pm bcgames, have you played Frank Hunter's Campaigns on the Danube 1805-1809?

It is also operational and highly considered by the Napoleonic fans.

I have it...but I never played it...cuz I couldn't mod all that I thought was necessary for me to be happy. I like playing games with a high-level of mod-ability. I'll reload and see if I can discover the buzz. Thanks for the recommendation.

Nikel wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:39 pm Regarding bibliography, probably James R. Arnold is the best reference, however so far only covers the spring campaign and is expensive.

https://napoleonbooks.com/napoleon-1813 ... t-bautzen/

ooo...nice. Published 2015. I haven't touched miniatures or 1813 since 2002. Must buy!

Nikel wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:39 pm Nafziger trilogy has been republished by Helion.

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 868a1a0f69

Got 'em...and all his 1813 OOBs as printed on his dot matrix printer from way back in the day. Once I received these documents by Pony Express, I removed all the paper guides and separated each page from the reams of paper. Then I slipped each page into a document protector. Only old folks who were on the cutting edge of computer technology in the 1990's will understand what I just said...SCSI cards forever! AOL!

Nikel wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:39 pm Also found this page with interesting maps, only spring.

http://www.napoleonsims.com/blog/post005.htm

Interesting link. I'll check it out. Thanks.

The maps and units were modded, but there is not scenario editor.

In Frank Hunter game the scale of the map is 9 kms per hex. Divisions, corps and armies, though the cavalry are probably brigades. 1 turn per day. And in your project?


A reference map of the period, perhaps too much detailed. Leipzig is in rectangle 70.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topograph ... %20180.000)%20f%C3%BCr%20Mitteleuropa.

A good book to read, for a Prussian /Allied point of view of 1813-15, is Blücher: Scourge of Napoleon. It does well in illustrating all the issues that the Allies had in coordinating actions, due to very different personalities and objectives/goals. Also shows how the French army really struggled to inflict decisive defeats with the lack of trained cavalry, and the Allies avoiding direct confrontation with Napoleon, while advancing in other areas.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bl%C3%BCcher-S ... C79&sr=8-1