Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:55 am**

Is there somebody really proficient in knowing the mp costs...who can give me some general rules to go by
I went and made some routes with the general idea of 38.7.3. and 38.7.4. from the manual but there seems to be alot of things affecting mp cost (So not the amount of movement points but rather issues with the cost)

would love some tips with this

for example there is this unit and its standing infront of 2 pending hexes (not red hexes but greyed out)
1 is a rough with no roads and 1 is a forest light forest...its raining in both
but for some reason it takes only 1 more to reach the rough one even though it has no roads and thus should have 2+ more cost compared to the forest wich takes only 1 mp
Also one thing i noticed is that if u just go back and forth (2 clear hexes for example) the cost will go from 1 mp to eventually 2? for the same clear hex to clear hex movement..couldnt understand it..this seems to happen in enemy or pending hexes only

so yea how do u calculate the routes reliably
(a movement cost calculator OR if the game actually showed u the rules that apply in each hex would be massively beneficial )

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:04 pm**

Summary - i use this consolidated table

Terrain MOT Non MOT

Heavy Woods/Forest 4/6/8 2/2/3
Mountain 8/16/40 4/6/10
Rough 4/5/6 2/2/2
Sand 8/8/10 4/4/6
Swamp 4/6/8 2/2/3

Road Conditions Good/Average/Poor

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:11 pm**

General MPs depending on roads.

: MP_cost.JPG (55.21 KiB) Viewed 969 times

Ground-Weather modifier for each type of road.

: road_MPs_modifier.JPG (45.94 KiB) Viewed 969 times

Additional crossing river costs.

: river_MP-costs.JPG (57.06 KiB) Viewed 969 times

...then there is additional MP costs for (leaving) ZOC, Interdicted Hexes, red/grey hexes .....and more moreoreorererere.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:19 pm**

+you got this setting activated already?

: show_path.JPG (62.01 KiB) Viewed 963 times

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:23 pm**

pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:55 am its raining in both

The rain itself doesn't have a impact on your MPs if I am right, the only "air weather" which may have a impact on your CUs is Blizzard (correct me if I am wrong).

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:22 pm**

Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:11 pm ...then there is additional MP costs for (leaving) ZOC, Interdicted Hexes, red/grey hexes .....and more moreoreorererere.

its exactly all these special rules i need help with

i made some pictures to hopefully showcase better

https://i.ibb.co/FDJfy0p/wat-5.png
here the 251 division has 1 wood hex to the west and 1 wood hex to the soutwest (drissa)
both of them cost the same mp even though in the manual it says the cost for entering a gray hex depends on the road system (theyre a 76 morale unit so then it should be +2 but both hex have same cost at +3)

https://i.ibb.co/zGqM9kS/wat-2.png
here im confused why the 34 division would not be able to just cross the river to bobruisk for 1+2 cost (swamp with average roads and 1 for crossing river)
the units preferred rout is going the black detour

https://i.ibb.co/RCWjygx/wat-4.png
here the cost for them going the hex to the east cost 5
in the manual it says crossing river is 1 and a light woods hex is 1..also 1 for light mud
so it has 2 left to enter a enemy hex? but there are roads there
shouldnt it be 1 cause its a 82 morale unit

https://ibb.co/PNgN3Q5
here the cost for entering the light woods and crossing the river for both units is 4
river 1
light woods 1
entering enemy hex 2?
shouldnt it be 3 cause there is no roads

this is turn 5 btw

any help much appreciated !

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:18 pm**

pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:22 pm
Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:11 pm ...then there is additional MP costs for (leaving) ZOC, Interdicted Hexes, red/grey hexes .....and more moreoreorererere.
its exactly all these special rules i need help with

i made some pictures to hopefully showcase better

https://i.ibb.co/FDJfy0p/wat-5.png
here the 251 division has 1 wood hex to the west and 1 wood hex to the soutwest (drissa)
both of them cost the same mp even though in the manual it says the cost for entering a gray hex depends on the road system (theyre a 76 morale unit so then it should be +2 but both hex have same cost at +3)

Light Woods costs 1MP for the terrain for non-motorized units (road or no road). The +2 comes from moving in just captured territory based on the 76 morale of the unit. Hopefully others can help out with your other questions. It can be difficult to figure all the costs, which is why the movement compass is so important.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:21 pm**

Was there a enemy CU present in the marked Hex (which you just couldn't see)?

: enemyCUpresent.JPG (41.96 KiB) Viewed 893 times

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:47 pm**

Oh my, we rly need to dig deep or a savior need to show up.

pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:22 pm https://ibb.co/PNgN3Q5
here the cost for entering the light woods and crossing the river for both units is 4
river 1
light woods 1
entering enemy hex 2?
shouldnt it be 3 cause there is no roads

Here the chart with your +3 (for everyone to see where it comes from).

: Source: Living Manual 1.18; tactical_movement_costs.png (133.75 KiB) Viewed 878 times

And since we want to show everything:

: Source: Living Manual 1.18 p.381; EZOC_vs_MPs.png (14.66 KiB) Viewed 874 times

Enemy Hexes (red/gray):
Enter enemy Hex (poor roads) +3

(E)ZOC:
...additional I am missing something or there is:

one statement saying that LEAVING a EZOC is +1 (chart)
one statement saying that it depends on the morale

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:14 pm**

Either there is something fishy or I have no idea about all of this.
This is GC T2 (so special T1 rules should be gone) ....not sure about all the other special rules.

: ID-into-swamp_poor-roads.jpg (139.54 KiB) Viewed 865 times

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:20 pm**

Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:47 pm Oh my, we rly need to dig deep or a savior need to show up.

pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:22 pm https://ibb.co/PNgN3Q5
here the cost for entering the light woods and crossing the river for both units is 4
river 1
light woods 1
entering enemy hex 2?
shouldnt it be 3 cause there is no roads

The minimum cost for entering enemy hex with poor roads applies at the end of the computation. So in your example we have:
- light woods non-motorized: +1
- minor river non-ezoc non-motorized: +1
- unit with morale 51-80: +2

Total: 1 + 1 + 2 = 4. Since 4>3 the minimum cost for entering enemy hex with poor roads doesn't apply.

Here's another example with unit morale 87 moving through swamps:

: move cost.jpg (26.61 KiB) Viewed 863 times

The first swamp costs 27- 18 = 9 MPs, which is:
- unit morale > 80 entering enemy hex: +1
- swamp, poor roads, motorized: +8
Total: 1 + 8 = 9. Since 9 > 3 the minimum cost for entering enemy hex with poor roads doesn't apply.

The second swamp costs 18 - 7 = 11 MPs, which is:
- unit morale > 80 entering enemy hex: +1
- swamp, poor roads, motorized: +8
- minor river, no ezoc, motorized: +2
Total 1 + 8 + 2 = 11. Since 11 > 3 the minimum cost for entering enemy hex with poor roads doesn't apply.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:22 pm**

Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:14 pm Either there is something fishy or I have no idea about all of this.
This is GC T2 (so special T1 rules should be gone) ....not sure about all the other special rules.
ID-into-swamp_poor-roads.jpg

This has a -1 modifier due to administrative movement bonus in poor quality road hex.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:34 pm**

K62 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:22 pm
Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:14 pm Either there is something fishy or I have no idea about all of this.
This is GC T2 (so special T1 rules should be gone) ....not sure about all the other special rules.
ID-into-swamp_poor-roads.jpg
This has a -1 modifier due to administrative movement bonus in poor quality road hex.

Thanks for that hint, it's 22.2.1 in the manual.

K62 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:20 pm The minimum cost for entering enemy hex with poor roads applies at the end of the computation.

MINIMUM + at the end. Thanks.

Hail dear Savior K62, obeisance

Posted: **Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:23 am**

Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:21 pm Was there a enemy CU present in the marked Hex (which you just couldn't see)?
enemyCUpresent.JPG

unfortunaly there wasnt to my horror...so still no idea why they made the detour
hugely appreciate the help btw

Joel Billings wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:18 pm
pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:22 pm
Wiedrock wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:11 pm ...then there is additional MP costs for (leaving) ZOC, Interdicted Hexes, red/grey hexes .....and more moreoreorererere.
its exactly all these special rules i need help with

i made some pictures to hopefully showcase better

https://i.ibb.co/FDJfy0p/wat-5.png
here the 251 division has 1 wood hex to the west and 1 wood hex to the soutwest (drissa)
both of them cost the same mp even though in the manual it says the cost for entering a gray hex depends on the road system (theyre a 76 morale unit so then it should be +2 but both hex have same cost at +3)

Light Woods costs 1MP for the terrain for non-motorized units (road or no road). The +2 comes from moving in just captured territory based on the 76 morale of the unit. Hopefully others can help out with your other questions. It can be difficult to figure all the costs, which is why the movement compass is so important.

thanks alot of u
so the saviors came and cleared it up..it seems to like that work ingame aswell
its just that in the manual it implies (or maybe its me ) that those morale rules only apply to hexes with roads
but now i sort of understand the mp costs

just the bobruisk example still i dont quite get cause rear area administrative movement shouldnt apply ...they are next to red hexes

https://i.ibb.co/rby1WcH/wat-6.jpg

Also one major thing i dont understand still is ...ive noticed that if u just move back and forth 1 hex in pending hexes
eventually the mp COST goes up (maybe something to do with fatigue but couldnt find it)
so from 1-1-1-1 eventually itl cost 2
this doesnt happen in rear areas only pending hexes
anyone knows?

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:35 pm**

pookiebear wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:55 am Is there somebody really proficient in knowing the mp costs...who can give me some general rules to go by
I went and made some routes with the general idea of 38.7.3. and 38.7.4. from the manual but there seems to be alot of things affecting mp cost (So not the amount of movement points but rather issues with the cost)

would love some tips with this
for example there is this unit and its standing infront of 2 pending hexes (not red hexes but greyed out)
1 is a rough with no roads and 1 is a forest light forest...its raining in both
but for some reason it takes only 1 more to reach the rough one even though it has no roads and thus should have 2+ more cost compared to the forest wich takes only 1 mp
Also one thing i noticed is that if u just go back and forth (2 clear hexes for example) the cost will go from 1 mp to eventually 2? for the same clear hex to clear hex movement..couldnt understand it..this seems to happen in enemy or pending hexes only

so yea how do u calculate the routes reliably
(a movement cost calculator OR if the game actually showed u the rules that apply in each hex would be massively beneficial )

I usually use my abacus on my desk to estimate the cost of TACTICAL MOVEMENT

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