Matrix Games Forums

Greetings all. I've got a great game going that has gone longer than any other full game I've played to date, we are in September '42 playing the DaBabes scenario 28 (limited capacity extended map). I'm playing Japan. However something has come up that I would like the community's input on. My worthy opponent is using his B-17s in base night attacks at 10k or above. I usually let these happen but on the few turns that I've chosen to put up CAP (at about 12-13K so as to give them a bit of a "bounce") I have found the results to be totally unrealistic. Basically the B-17s are knocking the Zeros out of the sky. They are virtually making a clean sweep (shooting down almost all). Now my Zero pilots are NOT newbees, have experience (70s) and are "fresh". Yet they are getting swept aside while the B-17s fly on untouched (70% or so of CAP being shot down). This is not a unique occurance, but seems to be the norm when I put CAP up (only with B-17s, it's too early in the war to have B-29s and other 2 or 4 engine bombers seem to garnish "expected" results in night bombing). Given our scenario, has anyone else had this gaming experience? I'm not really looking for a "solution" as I'm not sure the game allows for one. I just find the results totally outside the bounds of reality. I've read hundreds of books on WW2 over the decades and never once come across such realworld results for any bombers in the first half of the war. What am I missing? Have other players seen this and is it a technical issue with this scenario or with other scenarios? I've decided not to challenge B-17 night raids which is not really fair, and my worthy opponent has offered not to conduct them which is ALSO not fair (he should continue). Now my Zeros are NOT night fighters, but neither are the B-17s. Just wondering about others experiences in this area.

I really don't contest the night raids as Allies against the IJ. But put up Petes at low altitude just to run interference or Nicks with cannons and armour to challenge the bombers.

In the standard campaign game versus the Japanese AI I've seen some Allied bomber pilots eventually become aces knocking down Japanese nocturnal CAP. I don't know the rationale, but I've always had the feeling that heavy bombers having a close-range firepower advantage at night was an element baked into the game.

Getting the bounce is a daytime thing. At night the issue is finding the bombers, especially for the Japanese with poor radars and no ground control system to vector the fighters.

I don't know if it is modeled in the game, but IRL night fighters spotted bombers from below and moved into position behind them (or if they had an upward firing gun, under them). It was easier to spot the bombers from below because the engine sparks/manifold glow were more visible there (because the engines were slung below the wing). Bombers could also be silhouetted by firing parachute flares above their altitude, revealing them for fighters, searchlights and flak to track.
Try setting the altitude at 10K or 9K feet.

BBfanboy wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:57 pm Getting the bounce is a daytime thing. At night the issue is finding the bombers, especially for the Japanese with poor radars and no ground control system to vector the fighters.

I don't know if it is modeled in the game, but IRL night fighters spotted bombers from below and moved into position behind them (or if they had an upward firing gun, under them). It was easier to spot the bombers from below because the engine sparks/manifold glow were more visible there (because the engines were slung below the wing). Bombers could also be silhouetted by firing parachute flares above their altitude, revealing them for fighters, searchlights and flak to track.
Try setting the altitude at 10K or 9K feet.

Thanks for the input BB, and I agree with your analysis. But as the game doesn't differentiate between daytime and night time actions once "detection" is achieved, I think I'll just try to give B-17s a miss (given their famous box defense formations). Defending against other bomber formations at night is effective or more accurately NOT effective, but against the B-17 (and later the B-29?) it's simply not worth it given the outcomes. It's just a quirt of the game that we will have to live with. Thanks again. Hal