Matrix Games Forums

Played this game for years. The range of the AMI-120 series missiles was 40nm. Now, it's listed and set at 27nm.

WHAT!

THE!!

FYUK!!!

Now I can't engage Flankers at range because their AA-10 Alamo C missiles can now engage me at TWICE the distance before I can come within decent range. I have to rely on the less-impressive Sparrow III missiles which has a range of 38nm but less accurate than AMRAAMs.

Who messed this up, and why?

Try searching AIM-120 or BVR

And take a look at the new videos (new as six months ago)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=393481

This one actually uses AIM-120s as an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UbLuuH ... &index=110

Different versions of AIM-120 have different ranges. Which version do you have loaded?

The 27nm range matches available open source data that I can see for versions A through C4. After that the higher C's are 56.7 and D is 86.4nm, also matching available data.

Dave

ultradave wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:59 pm Different versions of AIM-120 have different ranges. Which version do you have loaded?

The 27nm range matches available open source data that I can see for versions A through C4. After that the higher C's are 56.7 and D is 86.4nm, also matching available data.

AIM-120A and B for the year 1994 in the Northern Fury campaigns.

bladesinger79 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:28 pm Played this game for years. The range of the AMI-120 series missiles was 40nm. Now, it's listed and set at 27nm.

WHAT!

THE!!

FYUK!!!

Now I can't engage Flankers at range because their AA-10 Alamo C missiles can now engage me at TWICE the distance before I can come within decent range. I have to rely on the less-impressive Sparrow III missiles which has a range of 38nm but less accurate than AMRAAMs.

Who messed this up, and why?

Have you read up on the War Planner update? The update featured a significant overhaul of the missile flight model. As a result, many missile ranges were reduced, including the AMRAAM’s.

Just to validate from open source:


Wikipedia

bladesinger79 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:09 pm

ultradave wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:59 pm Different versions of AIM-120 have different ranges. Which version do you have loaded?

The 27nm range matches available open source data that I can see for versions A through C4. After that the higher C's are 56.7 and D is 86.4nm, also matching available data.

AIM-120A and B for the year 1994 in the Northern Fury campaigns.

There ya' go. 27nm range for those babies.

Dave

Yes, while some of the older scenarios may have their intended balances affected, the air-to-air missiles in CMANO/CMO were stupidly over-effective at distance without much attempt at all to simulate relatively quick burn-out times of the rockets used. It can be deduced from publicly available information that even the current ranges are on the optimistic side against targets taking any effort to evade, which indeed is how it currently works. For me, getting this (more) right was a huge thing into right direction.

it's not about overhaul of the missile flight model. this is about the DB change.


bladesinger79 means the AIM-120A and AIM-120B's max range changed from 40nm to 27nm. That happened sometime last year during one of the Tiny update + DB update.

And if you search BVR, its discussed in a couple threads. Its about the change in the motor burn model.

Realism happened.

thewood1 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:45 pm And if you search BVR, its discussed in a couple threads. Its about the change in the motor burn model.

KungPao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:46 pm it's not about overhaul of the missile flight model. this is about the DB change.


bladesinger79 means the AIM-120A and AIM-120B's max range changed from 40nm to 27nm. That happened sometime last year during one of the Tiny update + DB update.

Actually, you are both right. Some various pre-Tiny updates to the DB altered the MAX range of several AAMs. Some examples for both East/West. The TSARH and IR versions of the AA-10/R-27 missiles used to have the same range as their counterparts for both the MR and LR versions. The Apex B IR had the same ranges as the Apex A SARH. The late model Sparrows had their max Range reduced from 101km to 70.4km, the C-5 through C-7 AMRAAMs had range reduced from 111km to 105km. The A-C AMRAAMS had range reduced from around 70km to 50km. Don't quote me on it but I think it occurred around db v491 or 492. Then of course you have the model changes and burn time calculations from TINY.