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PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:47 pm
by juntoalmar
Hi,
I'm learning how to play this fantastic game and I have almost convinced a friend to buy it so we can play PBEM. Being a WEGO game, I was expecting we could both give orders on our own computers in parallel, and then put the orders together so the turn is executed.
But reading the manual it seems that one player has to give all the orders first, and then send a gamefile to the second player who will be able to start giving his orders.
Is this still true, or are there are game patch/update that allows both players to give orders independently in parallel? i hope it can be achieved somehow, because it would change the gaming experience a lot
Thanks in advance!
PS: The post "How to start a PBEM game" is from 2009, so that's why I wonder if there's any patch released after that date that could fix this.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:14 pm
by RangerJoe
The Japanese input their orders first, then the Allies input their orders. Then the turn is run executing both sets of orders. If you use the PBEM system, each player needs a password so the other player can't look at his opponents side.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:18 am
by Chris21wen
juntoalmar wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:47 pm
Hi,
I'm learning how to play this fantastic game and I have almost convinced a friend to buy it so we can play PBEM. Being a WEGO game, I was expecting we could both give orders on our own computers in parallel, and then put the orders together so the turn is executed.
But reading the manual it seems that one player has to give all the orders first, and then send a gamefile to the second player who will be able to start giving his orders.
Is this still true, or are there are game patch/update that allows both players to give orders independently in parallel? i hope it can be achieved somehow, because it would change the gaming experience a lot
Thanks in advance!
PS: The post "How to start a PBEM game" is from 2009, so that's why I wonder if there's any patch released after that date that could fix this.
To be able to do what you want it to do then the game would need to be able to be played via network connected computers, e.g. over the the internet, which it isn't and never will be. See what RangerJoe wrote, it works.
In sales page of Matrix it's listed as Turn-Based WEGO.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:20 am
by juntoalmar
That actually sucks (the situation, not the game), as it doesn't seem unfeasable to implement:
- as a server based game (which is what I expected): both players connect to a server which gets their orders
- even as a client base game it's pretty straightforward: both players play independently and there are different gamefiles saved:
- Japanese orders: xxxxxx.jap
- Allied orders: xxxxxxx.aly
- turn results: xxxxxxx.gam
Both players would create their orders file independently (*.jap & *.aly), which would be executed in one of the PC (let's say, the japanese). Executing the turn would create the *.gam turn result file which is shared between the players as a starting point of the next turn.
This would eliminate the waiting. It's a pitty
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:48 pm
by RangerJoe
If you trust each other, you could send your save to the other player directly but what you want to do might take a lot of work for an older game.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:19 pm
by BBfanboy
Once you have the results of the previous turn, you could go through and decide your orders and write them down. Then when the next turn file arrives from the Japanese player, all you need to do is consult your orders list and finish your turn input.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:50 pm
by btd64
You could set a time limit per player. Although the first couple of turns for both sides could be problematic....GP
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:58 am
by juntoalmar
I think all those workarounds won't bring the benefit of a WEGO game, that both players do their stuff simultaneously. For me it's hard to understand how any WEGO game wouldn't have been designed like that from the beginning.
I'm not sure if there is still development & patches made for this game (probably not?), but I would happily volunteer to help implementing this system (I have experience in UX & videogame development).
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:35 am
by Platoonist
juntoalmar wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:58 am
For me it's hard to understand how any WEGO game wouldn't have been designed like that from the beginning.
I'm not sure if there is still development & patches made for this game (probably not?), but I would happily volunteer to help implementing this system (I have experience in UX & videogame development).
The developers of this game may have limited by the structure of the Gary Grigsby origin game it is derived from which was released back in 2004. With the last patch pending, I think this title has pretty much come to the end of any further development. It's remarkable that it went on for as long as it did.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:49 pm
by Zovs
juntoalmar wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:58 am
I think all those workarounds won't bring the benefit of a WEGO game, that both players do their stuff simultaneously. For me it's hard to understand how any WEGO game wouldn't have been designed like that from the beginning.
I'm not sure if there is still development & patches made for this game (probably not?), but I would happily volunteer to help implementing this system (I have experience in UX & videogame development).
You have to understand that this game was originally designed and released 19 years ago. Since that time new features and ideas introduced in the WEGO world have been improvements that were not available back then. Secondly this software is now way past any new features and the only modifications would be bug fixes and very small enhancements and not compete code overhaul your suggesting. They just don't have the staff (developers) or time to do it. If they did they'd just write a new game from scratch since the old code is over 19 years old.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:16 pm
by Jakerson
Zovs wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:49 pm
You have to understand that this game was originally designed and released 19 years ago. Since that time new features and ideas introduced in the WEGO world have been improvements that were not available back then. Secondly this software is now way past any new features and the only modifications would be bug fixes and very small enhancements and not compete code overhaul your suggesting. They just don't have the staff (developers) or time to do it. If they did they'd just write a new game from scratch since the old code is over 19 years old.
It seems highly probable that the current game engine codebase is severely outdated as this is 19 years old game and will require a complete overhaul and redesign in order to accommodate the addition of new features. It may be necessary to migrate the entire game to a modern programming language or game engine in order to leverage the latest advancements in software development and take advantage of the benefits they offer. This would be complete refactoring of whole game and propably take years.
As a software developer, I must express my astonishment that this game has endured and continues to receive updates. It is truly impressive that someone was able to create a wargame of such a grand scale and level of detail.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:24 pm
by Sardaukar
I think one of the first WEGO games was Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord in 2000.
Re: PBEM with both players giving orders simultaneously
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:35 pm
by JanSako
Pretty sure even in CM: Africa Corps (a few years after CM:BO) the 'WEGO' was really the same as WiTP, meaning player one issues orders, then player 2 issues orders, then player 1 sees replay & issues new orders, so on so forth. The only difference was that CM series just have one game file, if I recall correctly.
And that a turn in a CM series game does not take 'multiple hours'.