Matrix Games Forums

What is the altitude ceiling for AA guns? It's probably listed someplace, but I can't seem to find it? Perhaps it's a generic altitude that is listed someplace.

Thanks in advance.

The range listed for air targets in the database viewer is given as a slant range. So if it is listed as 1 nmi, then the ceiling for that weapon would be 1 nmi directly over the gun and would decrease the farther away the target is from the gun. Try to imagine the engagement envelope as a 1 nmi hemisphere around the gun, it's just hard to visualize on a 2D map.

Does the manual actually say this "slant range" somewhere? I'd like to see it. I haven't been able to find it.

Some of these guns have a range of 10 miles. Does that mean that that could shoot 50k feet straight up? (Granted, that's just an exaggeration.)

So, given the slant range, I would assume that a AA gun that has a 1-mile range would be able to shoot at about half of that at a 45-degree angle, is that about right?

If so, thanks for the info, and I'd love to know where that is listed. I'm just curious.

I've also wondered how detailed the ballistics are modeled in 3D. If full trajectory then you have to consider both altitude and range. Cant really give a single range number. More like top hemisphere of a spheroid.

DWReese wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:54 am What is the altitude ceiling for AA guns? It's probably listed someplace, but I can't seem to find it? Perhaps it's a generic altitude that is listed someplace.

Thanks in advance.

Well to put it simply, 0.000164579 nautical miles is equal to 1 foot. So, if an AA capable gun says the range is 1 nm. then the range is equal to 6076.12 feet. 1.5 nm. is 9114.17 feet. Fly at 10000+ ft. AGL and you'd be good against just about every AA gun in the game I think.

On a side note, I wish that in the descriptions for AA capable guns that they would list feet as well as nautical mile range. As for slant ranges, I don't even bother to figure out what the ceiling would be as range from the gun increases, I just think of a circular box being around any individual gun, not a half globe.

I understand what you are saying, and I understand the math involved, but it just seems that if ALL of the SAMs all have a ceiling listed, then the AA guns should have one as well, or just claim that all guns are x-number of feet and leave it at that. It doesn't seem as if the game player should have to break out a slide rule to try to figure out the ceiling. Besides, the number is just an estimate anyway. <lol>

DWReese wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:21 am Does the manual actually say this "slant range" somewhere? I'd like to see it. I haven't been able to find it.

Some of these guns have a range of 10 miles. Does that mean that that could shoot 50k feet straight up? (Granted, that's just an exaggeration.)

So, given the slant range, I would assume that a AA gun that has a 1-mile range would be able to shoot at about half of that at a 45-degree angle, is that about right?

If so, thanks for the info, and I'd love to know where that is listed. I'm just curious.

The manual does not, as far as I know, but I honestly haven't read like 90% of it. I figured this out by testing the idea in a simple test scenario after I read your post, because I was curious too.

If the anti-air range listed is 10 nmi, then yep they should be able to hit an aircraft 10 nmi / ~60,000 feet. All of the AAA units that I tested tend to have a max anti-air range of 0.8-1.5 nmi, which, I guess, is a reasonable approximation for most units. Oddly though, the old Soviet KS-19 and KS-30 flak cannons are listed as such in the game, whereas in real life they can reach out and touch you even if you are flying at 35,000 feet overhead. As far as I can tell, their performance is seriously limited in CMO.

Assuming the gun's engagement envelope is a hemisphere, then a more accurate calculation for the ceiling can be obtained by taking the sin of the angle you are shooting at (45° in this case) and multiplying it by the distance, 1 nmi (6076 feet). That would net you an engagement ceiling of ~4296 feet. This is all splitting hairs though, I think it's best to just do as Ronmexico111 said and assume it's a circle you don't fly over at low altitude. And a fighter pilot probably has more pressing things to worry about than remembering their sin & cosine tables while they're being shot at by some pissed-off dudes in a Shilka

I guess the takeaway here is that it's not really expected to hinge your plans on skirting the boundary of AAA guns. Don't fly through their engagement circle unless you are really high over them. And if you can't get high enough, go as fast as possible to minimize the time they have to shoot at you. Even the really crappy guns will start landing hits sooner or later. Also, SAMs do have a listed max altitude, but even it can be nebulous at times. Their engagement envelopes hinge much more on the physics of the Dynamic Launch Zone (DLZ) rather than simple altitude and distance measurements.

JambalayaSauce wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:13 am (...) then a more accurate calculation for the ceiling can be obtained by taking the sin of the angle you are shooting at (...)

Anyone else getting flashbacks to their high school exams?