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1. I have to believe I'm missing something obvious with the 2D10 CRT because the following is so fundamental to the game.

2. Fine (clear) weather. Germany played an O-chit and is making two blitz attacks.

3. My question concerns the blitz on the 3 French units (inf, mot corps & AT div) in Belgium 52,31.

4. Germany can muster 4 units, 2 of which are armor and 3 of which are doubled by the O-chit. It's 53 attack factors vs 14 defending factors (AT gun double because defending against armor).

5. Germany managed to ground strike and flip the 2 corps, so that's +4 DRM. The defending AT div against armor means -1 DRM.

6. When I calculate the 2D10 CRT odds I get what MWIF gets +10.57 vs +10.6.

7. However; when I select blitz MWIF includes another +2 DRM for the two German armor corps attacking.

8. It is fine (clear) weather and the hex from which both are attacking (Antwerp & Brussels) are clear. However; they're both in city hexes and are still getting the +1 x 2 armor = +2 DRM? What am I missing? 9. Attached MWIF 5.0.0.10 game file.

It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

Orm wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:55 pm It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

I like that explanation, but maybe I'm dense because I still don't understand.

Blitz attack mod (clear weather only)

+1 ~ per attacking ARM and MECH in a (non-city) clear or desert hex provided the unit is not attacking across a fort hexside.

As I read the above, the "(non-city) clear or desert hex" seems to apply to the attacking armor? But you're saying that that applies to the defending units? That definitely makes sense because no where else do I see anything about the defenders being in a clear (non-city) hex. But that's not how it reads to me?

In the old days, or if I were implementing this rule myself with paper and cardboard (or vassal) I'd certainly play it wrong.

P.S. I guess if I though it through more than I would see that the modification applies to the defenders and not the attackers. Because in the second blitz attack, Belgium 54,32, the defenders are in the woods and, or course, German mech in a clear (non-city) hex in this case doesn't get modifier.

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:03 pm

Orm wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:55 pm It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

I like that explanation, but maybe I'm dense because I still don't understand.

Blitz attack mod (clear weather only)

+1 ~ per attacking ARM and MECH in a (non-city) clear or desert hex provided the unit is not attacking across a fort hexside.

As I read the above, the "(non-city) clear or desert hex" seems to apply to the attacking armor? But you're saying that that applies to the defending units? That definitely makes sense because no where else do I see anything about the defenders being in a clear (non-city) hex. But that's not how it reads to me?

In the old days, or if I were implementing this rule myself with paper and cardboard (or vassal) I'd certainly play it wrong.

P.S. I guess if I though it through more than I would see that the modification applies to the defenders and not the attackers. Because in the second blitz attack, Belgium 54,32, the defenders are in the woods and, or course, German mech in a clear (non-city) hex in this case doesn't get modifier.

I found a "better" copy of the WiF 2D10 CRT which clears that language up. It states +1 per ARM, MECH and/or HQ-A unit attacking a (non-city) clear or desert hex not across a fort hexside.

That's a nice-looking table.

That latest 2d10 table that you got is stamped as of 2017, and might not be completely compatible with MIWF, This because MWIF uses an older rule set. Is 2008 the stop year for MWIF rules?

I already found one discrepancy with this 2d10 table, and I am an 2d10 amateur.

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:03 pm

Orm wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:55 pm It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

I like that explanation, but maybe I'm dense because I still don't understand.

Blitz attack mod (clear weather only)

+1 ~ per attacking ARM and MECH in a (non-city) clear or desert hex provided the unit is not attacking across a fort hexside.

As I read the above, the "(non-city) clear or desert hex" seems to apply to the attacking armor? But you're saying that that applies to the defending units? That definitely makes sense because no where else do I see anything about the defenders being in a clear (non-city) hex. But that's not how it reads to me?

In the old days, or if I were implementing this rule myself with paper and cardboard (or vassal) I'd certainly play it wrong.

P.S. I guess if I though it through more than I would see that the modification applies to the defenders and not the attackers. Because in the second blitz attack, Belgium 54,32, the defenders are in the woods and, or course, German mech in a clear (non-city) hex in this case doesn't get modifier.

Ok, guys. The relevant hex is the attacked hex which, in this case is clear, so you can have the blitz bonus if you select the blitz table.
Although I wouldnt explain it this way, the -1 would belong to the defending AT (see upper part of the 2d10 table). However, if Blitz was called, you would get 2 blitz bonus, ending in a final +1. So, it is correct.

Armor: -1 (because of AT), + 2 blitz bomus for the Armor if Blitz table is selected, and in that case a final "Armor: -1 +2 = 1

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:20 pm

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:03 pm

Orm wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:55 pm It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

I like that explanation, but maybe I'm dense because I still don't understand.

Blitz attack mod (clear weather only)

+1 ~ per attacking ARM and MECH in a (non-city) clear or desert hex provided the unit is not attacking across a fort hexside.

As I read the above, the "(non-city) clear or desert hex" seems to apply to the attacking armor? But you're saying that that applies to the defending units? That definitely makes sense because no where else do I see anything about the defenders being in a clear (non-city) hex. But that's not how it reads to me?

In the old days, or if I were implementing this rule myself with paper and cardboard (or vassal) I'd certainly play it wrong.

P.S. I guess if I though it through more than I would see that the modification applies to the defenders and not the attackers. Because in the second blitz attack, Belgium 54,32, the defenders are in the woods and, or course, German mech in a clear (non-city) hex in this case doesn't get modifier.

I found a "better" copy of the WiF 2D10 CRT which clears that language up. It states +1 per ARM, MECH and/or HQ-A unit attacking a (non-city) clear or desert hex not across a fort hexside.

It was clear anyway in the old table.

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:03 pm

Orm wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:55 pm It is the terrain in which the attacked unit is in that counts. There is no relevance if the attacker is in city, or not. So you miss that the attaching armour/mech gets their panzer modifier for attacking clear terrain with no city.

I like that explanation, but maybe I'm dense because I still don't understand.

Blitz attack mod (clear weather only)

+1 ~ per attacking ARM and MECH in a (non-city) clear or desert hex provided the unit is not attacking across a fort hexside.

As I read the above, the "(non-city) clear or desert hex" seems to apply to the attacking armor? But you're saying that that applies to the defending units? That definitely makes sense because no where else do I see anything about the defenders being in a clear (non-city) hex. But that's not how it reads to me?

In the old days, or if I were implementing this rule myself with paper and cardboard (or vassal) I'd certainly play it wrong.

P.S. I guess if I though it through more than I would see that the modification applies to the defenders and not the attackers. Because in the second blitz attack, Belgium 54,32, the defenders are in the woods and, or course, German mech in a clear (non-city) hex in this case doesn't get modifier.

Well, the text you quote says: "+1 per attacking armor in a non-city clear or desert hex ..."
The way everybody understands it (probably basing on rules or clarifications) is "+1 per armor attacking to a non-city clear or desert hex ..." not "in" but "to".

This was the text of the 1d10 rules, from which 2d10 are an evolution, and in this case it is better written than in the poorer English of the 2d10, although the bonuses are half those of the 2d10, obviously :

"Option 39: (Blitz bonus) Add 1 to the die roll for each two attacking
ARM, MECH and HQ-A units conducting a blitz attack against a clear
or desert (non city) hex in fine weather. Subtract one from the roll per
defending ARM, MECH and HQ-A in a (non city) clear or desert hex
in fine weather. Add 1 to the roll for each paradropping unit (after air
to air combat and anti aircraft fire, if any). "

Follow up if I may. Armor in woods attacking a target in a non city clear hex. Does the armor still get the bonus? Based on clarifications I've gotten I'd say yes?

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:47 pm Follow up if I may. Armor in woods attacking a target in a non city clear hex. Does the armor still get the bonus? Based on clarifications I've gotten I'd say yes?

The only hex that has any relevance on land combat modifiers is the hex that it attacked. The hex where the defending units are located. Sometimes, the hex side between the hex the defender is in, and the hex the attacker is in has some relevance (river, fort, alpine hexside, lake, etc.).

So to answer your question: yes, armour in woods attacking a target in a non city clear hex gets the bonus if it is a blitz attack.

rkr1958 wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:47 pm Follow up if I may. Armor in woods attacking a target in a non city clear hex. Does the armor still get the bonus? Based on clarifications I've gotten I'd say yes?

Yes, like in all the modifyers in WIF attacks, the only relevant hex is the attacked one. Hexsides have a role but only one hex does.