Matrix Games Forums

Hi,

Sorry if the question is foolish or if it's posted in the wrong forum. I’m learning the game and after playing a couple of Coral Sea I have started “The thousand mile-war” scenario for conquering the Aleutians playing the americans.

After doing a successful bombardment mission on Kiska Island with my BBs, I send them back to Dutch Harbor to refill. But I’ve noticed they haven’t been rearmed with ammunitions for the big guns (14 inches).
The port has plenty of supply & support. I thought that perhaps supply and ammunition are different things, but I haven’t found in the manual or the game if there’s a different indicator for ammunition available in the base.

I tried to disband the TF and create a new one but when I press the button “Replenish TF from port” I get the message “TF could not be fully rearmed at Dutch Harbour”.

Am I doing something wrong or is it part of the scenario that the americans didn’t have enough shells to resupply their ships? If the later, how can I check the amount of ammunition available for resupplying the ships?

Thanks in advance.

As per the manual starting on page 284, check the port size and the amount of Naval Support or else bring in an AE and/or AKE. Bring in multiple ones if you can.

20.1.2.2 SHIP REARMAMENT AT PORTS TABLE
The Rearm Table shows the number of Naval Support squads, in different size Ports, and/or
the types of tenders, required for rearming certain weapons. A TF can ‘completely’ rearm in a
port if the Rearm Cost of the largest weapon is “less than or equal to” the native Rearm Level
of a Port, plus the number of Naval Support squads in the Port. Each Naval Support squad =
5 Rearm points.
Ports that are normally too small to rearm certain weapons may do so if an appropriate tender
is at anchor in the Port. The weapon Rearm Cost must be “less than or equal to” the tender
“cargo capacity”.
As a TF rearms, it consumes supply. The amount of supply required for each weapon, for each
ship, is [(Rearm Cost) * (number of guns) * (ammo per gun)] / 2000.
* Yamato/Musashi may also rearm at a Port-9, or a Port-8 with at least 88 Naval Support
squads.
* AG may only rearm “Small Escort and Small Craft” as defined in 14.2.3.2

A chart at the bottom of the page then shows the needed port size with the naval support required per weapon type. Dutch Harbor may not be large enough.

Thanks for your answer and for pointing out the part of the manual (I haven't reached the appendices yet).

I put both the BBs and a AE in the same hex and could rearm them (partially, two of them were rearmed, but no the third). I will dig more into the manual, this game is more and more interesting as I read about it!

juntoalmar wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:27 am Thanks for your answer and for pointing out the part of the manual (I haven't reached the appendices yet).

I put both the BBs and a AE in the same hex and could rearm them (partially, two of them were rearmed, but no the third). I will dig more into the manual, this game is more and more interesting as I read about it!

If you are re-arming multiple big ships, AE often runs out operation points and you need to wait for second day to it complete the re-arming.

juntoalmar wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:27 am Thanks for your answer and for pointing out the part of the manual (I haven't reached the appendices yet).

I put both the BBs and a AE in the same hex and could rearm them (partially, two of them were rearmed, but no the third). I will dig more into the manual, this game is more and more interesting as I read about it!

You are most welcome.

As Sardaukar pointed out, you probably ran out of operations points. There are 1000 per turn segment, so leaving the ships there might help. It also helps to have more AE/AKEs there as well. Refueling will also use operation points as well. If you have the ships set to refuel, they will also rearm the best that they can with the available port size with naval support and tanker/AOs supplementing the ports fuel supply. Any turns that the AE/AKEs do not use up their available operations points rearming ships, they should be reloading what they can from supplies at the port to help them extend their available time at the forward operations base before they have to return to a major base to fully reload.

Ranger Joe: ... reloading what the can from supplies at the port

So the AEs/AKEs should bring aboard more toilet paper for "the heads" (aka "the can")? I hope there is a Costco at that port!

BBfanboy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:34 pm

Ranger Joe: ... reloading what the can from supplies at the port

So the AEs/AKEs should bring aboard more toilet paper for "the heads" (aka "the can")? I hope there is a Costco at that port!

Thank you for spotting the error. But they should make sure that they have enough to do the paperwork at the end of that job. Sometimes, those ammo handlers just might scare the fecal matter out of themselves!

Note this
'Ports that are normally too small to rearm certain weapons may do so if an appropriate tender is at anchor in the Port. The weapon Rearm Cost must be “less than or equal to” the tender “cargo capacity”'.

Easy thing to miss. E.g. If look at he rearm cost for 14in gun it's 3000+ (supply point), any AK/AKE with less cargo space than that won't rearm.

To summarize reloading from AE/AKE:

- AE/AKE needs to be loaded with supply
- AE/AKE capacity needs to be large enough (equal or bigger) compared to load cost of weapon
- AE/AKE needs to have enough operation points to do reload operation that turn (1000 points are available per turn)

Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:40 pm To summarize reloading from AE/AKE:

- AE/AKE needs to be loaded with supply
- AE/AKE capacity needs to be large enough (equal or bigger) compared to load cost of weapon
- AE/AKE needs to have enough operation points to do reload operation that turn (1000 points are available per turn)

Just read this thread and thank you for clearing up the AE/AkE loading parameters....GP

Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:40 pm To summarize reloading from AE/AKE:

- AE/AKE needs to be loaded with supply
- AE/AKE capacity needs to be large enough (equal or bigger) compared to load cost of weapon
- AE/AKE needs to have enough operation points to do reload operation that turn (1000 points are available per turn)

Thanks for the summary! A question: are "the load cost of weapon" and remaining "operation points " for the units available to check somewhere in the game itself? Can determine in-game if a AE/AKE is suitable to rearm another ship, or do you need to go to table in the page 284 of the manual to check it yourself?

Thanks!

You usually get an idea quite quickly what AE ships can rearm, but can usually just check from manual table.
I used bit incorrect words "load cost", since it's rearm cost. But they are all in manual p.284 onwards.

E.g: AE Pyro has Capacity of 3600. That is good for rearming 14" guns but not 15" ones. Their rearm cost is 3876 which exceeds capacity of Pyro


On the other hand, AE Lassen has capacity of 5400 and she can rearm any ship gun in Allied inventory. You also see from picture that She is fully loaded to capacity and has used 0 Ops points. Remember that in Ops column, it's used Ops points, not remaining (every ship had 1000 ops points).

Thus, it is quite easy to check from ship list if your AE cannot rearm something...or why it cannot.

It is usually lack of capacity (cannot supply big enough shells), lack of Ops points (all 1000 already used, can be seen easily from ship list) or lack of supply (ditto).

Thanks for your answer, but I still haven't been able to rearm. This is my case playing the Aleutians scenario:

- I have TF9 with 3 BB (Nevada, Pennsylvania & Ohio) plus some CA & CL with big guns being:

• 14in/45 Mk8* Gun (rearm cost 3000)

• 8in/55 Mk 9 Gun (rearm cost 540)

• 6in/47 Mk 16 Gun (rearm cost ???)

• 5in/38 Mk 12 EBR (rearm cost 110)

- I have in the same hex TF8 with a couple of AO (Auxiliary oilers) and AE Rainier (Auxiliary ammunition) on Replenishment mission. Rainier has a cargo capacity of 4480, in theory it has the capacity of rearming all the guns, right?
- Both TF are in the same hex, I click “Replenish TF at Sea” on the TF9, all the ships in TF9 spend 250 Ops points, but it only refuels the ships, no ammunition is transferred, even if I leave them in the same hex for a few turns. I clicked “Replenish TF at Sea” on TF8 as well, but no difference.
- If I click “Replenish TF at Sea” again, I just get a message “No fuel transferred!!!”

Am I doing something wrong?

Screenshots attached

Put the AE into the port and then try to rearm.

Ammo replenishment at sea is only available from Jan. 1st 1945. Usual use of Auxiliary vessels is to disband them in port so ships needing service can move alongside them. Most can also do their work while in a TF at the same port as the ship needing service, but the Aux vessel may use some ops points refueling itself from the port every turn because it will use a small amount of fuel while sitting in a TF in port (to simulate boilers powering ship systems).

Also, if the single AE is trying to reload your three BBs, it will first reload one turret (weapon slot) on the first ship in the list, then go to the next BB and -if ops points and supply aboard allow- it will rearm one turret on that ship, and so on until it runs out of ops points or supply. For 3 BBs it will usually take a single AE 2 to 4 days to rearm the main armament. Each phase, if the AE has some ops points available but not enough to rearm the big guns, it will expend those ops points rearming secondary or AA guns.

A clarification about the 1000 ops points mentioned - there are 1000 ops points per 12 hour phase (twice a day) so the AE really has 2000 to work with if it has not used any moving into the port or refueling or restocking ammo from the port. And the BBs themselves will be ops point limited. Refueling takes precedence over rearming so the BBs will use ops points doing that.

And you should also consider the size of the port and number of Naval Support squads available to rearm ships.

BBfanboy wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:18 pm Ammo replenishment at sea is only available from Jan. 1st 1945.

Oh, I didn't know that. Is that somewhere in the manual or an obscure info you get from the forums?

BBfanboy wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:18 pm Also, if the single AE is trying to reload your three BBs, it will first reload one turret (weapon slot) on the first ship in the list, then go to the next BB and -if ops points and supply aboard allow- it will rearm one turret on that ship, and so on until it runs out of ops points or supply. For 3 BBs it will usually take a single AE 2 to 4 days to rearm the main armament.

After pressing "Replenish TF at sea" only the AO have speent some operational points, so I think the AE was not performing any rearment (and I didn't see any ammo being reloaded after a few days).

Thanks by your answers! I will move both TF at a port and see what happens.

You might want to include some AKEs for the cruisers and destroyers as well as an AD for the destroyers. To save the AE for the BBs, just put it in a TF before rearming the other warships. Then disband the AE and rearm the BBs. But if they are going to see extended use, you might want to bring more AEs as well. I also convert all of the C2 Lassen class to AEs, nothing else. When you need them, you really need them.

juntoalmar wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:12 pm Oh, I didn't know that. Is that somewhere in the manual or an obscure info you get from the forums?

The manual itself isn't too specific on the date for underway ammo replenishment. Just late in the war.