Matrix Games Forums

Elsewhere, maybe DOJO, I read / heard that some players disband their flak units pretty immediately.

In the overall scheme of things, how useful are they? Will the game use them in a ground attack, assuming the gun crews are trained to engage ground target...and they have the gun-sights?

For instance, as the Soviet player in StB, I've scrapped all the flak units. And I don't think the Luftwaffe had any particular advantage.

Thoughts on multi-combat use, and need for protection against the LW from 1943 onward?

Regards,

Rick

rickwarintheeast wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:36 pm Elsewhere, maybe DOJO, I read / heard that some players disband their flak units pretty immediately.

In the overall scheme of things, how useful are they? Will the game use them in a ground attack, assuming the gun crews are trained to engage ground target...and they have the gun-sights?

For instance, as the Soviet player in StB, I've scrapped all the flak units. And I don't think the Luftwaffe had any particular advantage.

Thoughts on multi-combat use, and need for protection against the LW from 1943 onward?

Regards,

Rick

Depends on what you are trying to do really. But to me there is no right or wrong answer. If I am playing a strong German player I will disband anything and everything that will give me manpower to throw into units to slow up the Germans. Thus I disband the flak and will rebuild later if needed. Now the Germans don't have that luxury of rebuilding so you need to think hard before doing. Not to mention the Soviet Airforce is massive and may just want to keep them around to get those AA kills . But all depends on how you want to play. But that is just my 2 cents and 2 cents does not go far at all these days ;-P

"But all depends on how you want to play."

Sorry, not immediately obvious how to quote you.

Do flak units offer an pluses in ground combat if they are attached to a unit, or are they just along for the ride?

Regards

rickwarintheeast wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:43 pm "But all depends on how you want to play."

Sorry, not immediately obvious how to quote you.

Do flak units offer an pluses in ground combat if they are attached to a unit, or are they just along for the ride?

Regards

I can tell you do they do engage in ground combat just like anything else. look at Ground Combat tab of the Battle Details section for specific results of any flak units involved in the fighting.

HLYA is right in regard to there usually being no perfect single answer to these maximization of specific unit questions. A good example would be if you are a German player and choose to move your panzer units into the Reserve Box during the winter of 41 due to their very high rate of breaking down and to save on supply. You would need to make sure your infantry units have as many 88s in the line to provide some anti-tank capability.

I will go look. Moving / disbanding all those flak units takes a while.

BTW, I wish there were some Macro we could write which would automate some of this stuff. A simple for-instance is allocating SUs, say AT regiments to Soviet rifle divisions. I would be great to pull up a list of available units and another list of targets, press a button, and bingo, help against the tanks.

Regards,

Rick

PeteJC wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:13 pm
I can tell you do they do engage in ground combat just like anything else. look at Ground Combat tab of the Battle Details section for specific results of any flak units involved in the fighting.

While that is true, I believe there’s a stipulation that elements acting in an AA role have a 75% chance NOT to fire on ground targets, per the manual.

I would assume this is true even for models that were used historically in a dual purpose role. I’m not sure if this is simply for balance reasons or if it’s supposed to represent something like different ammunition types (And there effectiveness) allocated to these units.

Seristal wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:00 pm

PeteJC wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:13 pm
I can tell you do they do engage in ground combat just like anything else. look at Ground Combat tab of the Battle Details section for specific results of any flak units involved in the fighting.

While that is true, I believe there’s a stipulation that elements acting in an AA role have a 75% chance NOT to fire on ground targets, per the manual.

I would assume this is true even for models that were used historically in a dual purpose role. I’m not sure if this is simply for balance reasons or if it’s supposed to represent something like different ammunition types (And there effectiveness) allocated to these units.

I believe that’s only in relation to AA SU’s on offensive battles

Veterin wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:28 pm

Seristal wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:00 pm

PeteJC wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:13 pm
I can tell you do they do engage in ground combat just like anything else. look at Ground Combat tab of the Battle Details section for specific results of any flak units involved in the fighting.

While that is true, I believe there’s a stipulation that elements acting in an AA role have a 75% chance NOT to fire on ground targets, per the manual.

I would assume this is true even for models that were used historically in a dual purpose role. I’m not sure if this is simply for balance reasons or if it’s supposed to represent something like different ammunition types (And there effectiveness) allocated to these units.

I believe that’s only in relation to AA SU’s on offensive battles

Veterin is correct. "In addition, Anti-aircraft guns in the attacker’s units will not fire 75 percent of the
time." p. 413 of the Living Manual 1.16

as axis i put them in western france at the start....and get some more inf from there to russia

As LW AA Support units cannot be assigned directly to a combat unit except a FZ, what do you do with them?

Some folks attach AA units directly to tank and motorized units (German). To help with defending against air attacks. Whether this really helps or not I cannot say.

56ajax wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 2:53 am As LW AA Support units cannot be assigned directly to a combat unit except a FZ, what do you do with them?

Send them to TBs or load up a HQ with them in a hex which you think the VVS will strike. A dozen of AAA battalions has an unpleasant impact on Soviet planes!

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:09 pm Some folks attach AA units directly to tank and motorized units (German). .

You can only do this with Army AA. The game does not allow LW AA to be attached directly to combat units.