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I am on turn 17 as the Axis player (verses a human not the AI). This will be my first time through the 41 winter as Axis. Any suggestions from those who have "weathered" the winter months successfully...

I'd be interested in hearing those suggestions as well

Have you read these two threads already?


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0#p5095970


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... rst+winter

PeteJC wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:04 pm I am on turn 17 as the Axis player (verses a human not the AI). This will be my first time through the 41 winter as Axis. Any suggestions from those who have "weathered" the winter months successfully...

Yes, don't wait until turn 17 to ask. You could get away with that to an extent with Wite1. Not here. The first rule is to plan ahead and not figure things out after the initial campaign season ends.

#1 is have your ducks in order regarding supply. You want to have fully operational ports both north and south as they provide an important parallel supply chain to the rail network you are creating along the interior. Those ports should be tied into your main railnet to the greatest extent possible. That goes particularly for ports like Tallinn, Nikolaev, and Kherson. Secondary ports like Parnu and Odessa can also add value.

#2 when it comes to rail repair, early on you should be clearing space in 2-3 infantry corps so you can put your battalion and company-sized RADs in them. Learn to use these corps to augment rail repair, taking advantage of the fact they always repair hexes no more than 5 distant from the HQ. It does require micro but if done properly, you can allow an HQ like this to repair a 10-hex stretch by positioning the RADs to repair from the outside in.

#3 you do need to decide whether to winter the panzers off-map. This helps make your decision at the start regarding whether to use open theater boxes. If you do use them, you can swap infantry divisions from the Western TB with your panzer divisions. If closed TBs, you simply decide if you are sending panzer divisions to the Axis Reserve. If you simply want to leave them on-map, just avoid or restrict refitting them until first winter is over. Any tanks you try and replace while blizzard is on will often be damaged lost over time.

#4 You will receive a series of air transport regiments during the winter that can help move supplies around. This can be helpful in places where you simply aren't getting sufficient supplies by rail. So make use of these.

#5. A ton of supply is a ton of supply. If you spend it on the Rumanians, you may be spending it on a poor performing 45-morale unit. You could also spend that ton on an 80-morale infantry division. Set your priorities accordingly. Understand to that supply is not just beans and bullets. It replaces damaged or missing manpower. You can lose a lot of it in winter so a buildup of supplies can not just give units more ammo, they can plus up a division to full strength in manpower.

#6 First Winter is not some monolithic weather block for 17 turns. Near Leningrad you may experience blizzard conditions for multiple weeks at a time while in the Crimea, it just snows. That impacts whether penalties apply to your defensive CV. What this means is that your units in the south will often not be subjected to the worst of the winter penalties. You actually can fight a campaign in the Crimea over first winter if you are careful about how you go about it. Always check the weather forecast. It is often quite accurate and can help guide your decisions on how to approach the coming turn.

Those two threads cited above are the place to start, and contain far more experience than I have. But I have just finished a 1941 campaign against the AI on 110%, so here is what I applied:

Prioritise and capture Leningrad. Meanwhile, push to the line Volkov river - Staraya Russa - Vyazma - Orel - Kursk - Kharkov - Dnepropetrovsk - Osipenko, or something similar. You want a straightish line with good defensive terrain, cities and above all, nearby depots. Supply is the key.

Now stop in October - don't do Typhoon! Dig in and get forts to level 3 where possible - this needs a division to sit on a hex with good supply for at least 6-8 weeks. Units with low supply can't build nice warm bunkers. So getting plenty of supply is crucial - and wherever possible you want depots close by so that the units don't use their trucks. Plan your rail lines in advance, and choose your stop line accordingly. Take all armies off Assault status, otherwise they can't dig in more than level 1. Make sure all units are within their command limits. If a unit is struggling to fortify, increase the supply priority of its corps and allocate construction units.

Put HQs on depots, maybe the FBDs as well. Move the panzers to the cities and leave them there - don't move them unless you have to (and then use rail). Now hang on.

A divison with high CPP (rested) in defensive terrain with level 3 entrenchment and 75% supply is impregnable. Note these 5 factors. A unit with 4 of these is OK against anything but an all out assault. 3 you start to worry. I had these conditions in place along 80% of my line and the Soviets beat themselves to death on it, 20,000 casualties a turn to my 10,000. I could even launch small local attacks against weak units and wreck them for more losses, but that's probably a bit gamey. Historically, the over-extended and exhausted Germans of Army Group Center had 1 or 2. The winter supplies were all piled up at Smolensk.

If a unit is defeated it loses its fortification and CPP, so that is very bad - it will continue to go backwards. But the Soviets cant penetrate far before their supply also collapses. So Hitler was right - stand fast, reinforce the shoulders and deploy whatever reserves you can muster to contain the penetration (which is why you have to get Leningrad to release those divisions). I had a few break-ins, but was able to turn them into traps for destruction later. By Jan-Feb you can shift to local offensives to pinch off, push back and just hurt the Soviets, but don't use tanks in heavy snow.

I'm now at May 1942 and the soviets are close to collapse with over 5 million casualties. I have less than 1 million, and that's without the AI doing anything ridiculous.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback.

I have been using corps to control the extra rail repair units from turn 1. All 9 were put under Chappius and currently (turn 19) I have 4 extra corps controlling them in various places along with 2 extra Romanian corps controlling the 4 RR units. I have a good network that stretches in a kind of large loop all the way to Rostov in the south up thru Kharkov-Belgorod-Kursk-Orel-Tula on up and west to Rzhev west to Velikie Luki and thru Pskov to 4 hexes north of Pskov. At this point I am working on filling in the majority of the double rail lines in the center of the loop. Hopefully, all done for the most part by 1/1/42.

My strategic "problem" is I have done much better than I thought I would so I am still soldiering on as I feel I may have a chance at getting and keeping 750 VP by 1/1/42. I am currently at 692 and have Sevastopol hemmed in, Leningrad cutoff from the mainland and being supplied via Lake Ladoga and as the crow flies, I am only (assuming 10 miles per hex) 100 miles from Saratov & 70 miles from Stalingrad. My reasoning for prodding on is that If it becomes obvious that I truly have no chance at the 750VP then I will have a lot of room to retreat. Work is being done in regard to fortifications along a line I was originally thinking I would occupy. It should be an interesting winter....

I've always wondered about taking large amounts of territory in the south then retreating a few hexes each turn during the winter, but I suspect it will hit my trucks too hard, but on the positive side it might give the Fuhrer a heart attack. The AI used to counter-attack mostly in front of Moscow, but now it seems to spread out a bit more. As I say above, the Soviets don't have supply during Winter advances so their progress will peeter out.

It certainly will be interesting.

TallBlondJohn wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:53 pm I've always wondered about taking large amounts of territory in the south then retreating a few hexes each turn during the winter, but I suspect it will hit my trucks too hard, but on the positive side it might give the Fuhrer a heart attack. The AI used to counter-attack mostly in front of Moscow, but now it seems to spread out a bit more. As I say above, the Soviets don't have supply during Winter advances so their progress will peter out.

It certainly will be interesting.

Honestly, I wouldn't be worried if I was playing the AI. It just doesn't coordinate well. I am playing a human and he will coordinate his efforts and maximize his attacks. The trucks are definitely a concern as I am sure I will be wearing them all out (and have been during all these mud months as we are on turn 20 at the moment). That may really hamper me come spring offensive time. I wonder too about losing the bonus points on the the cities I have taken that I will not be able to hold (i.e. Rostov, Ryazan Voronezh ). I highly doubt I will get back those bonus points when/if I take them back come '42 so overall I may have been better off waiting. Oh well, the die has been cast....

PeteJC wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:25 am I am playing a human and he will coordinate his efforts and maximize his attacks. The trucks are definitely a concern as I am sure I will be wearing them all out (and have been during all these mud months as we are on turn 20 at the moment). That may really hamper me come spring offensive time. I wonder too about losing the bonus points on the the cities I have taken that I will not be able to hold (i.e. Rostov, Ryazan Voronezh ). I highly doubt I will get back those bonus points when/if I take them back come '42 so overall I may have been better off waiting. Oh well, the die has been cast....

If you are in fact 10 hexes from Saratov and 7 from Stalingrad this early, it doesn't sound as if you have much to worry about. It's as though your opponent has no experience with the game.

M60A3TTS wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:46 pm

PeteJC wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:25 am I am playing a human and he will coordinate his efforts and maximize his attacks. The trucks are definitely a concern as I am sure I will be wearing them all out (and have been during all these mud months as we are on turn 20 at the moment). That may really hamper me come spring offensive time. I wonder too about losing the bonus points on the the cities I have taken that I will not be able to hold (i.e. Rostov, Ryazan Voronezh ). I highly doubt I will get back those bonus points when/if I take them back come '42 so overall I may have been better off waiting. Oh well, the die has been cast....

If you are in fact 10 hexes from Saratov and 7 from Stalingrad this early, it doesn't sound as if you have much to worry about. It's as though your opponent has no experience with the game.

To be fair, it is his first time playing as Soviet. Previously we played 3 games where I was Soviet and I had extensive solo play before that as German so I had a large experience advantage. Add on that I am retired with minimal family commitments, and he works full time with a young daughter. So, let's just say I can allocate much more time to each turn.

I expect a very difficult winter as I am pretty sure I have hit my ultimate high-water mark (on turn 20 at the moment) and see no way of holding all this "extra" land. He had forgotten to put the regenerated units in Reserves on 100% TOE & Refit for a few turns so he will be getting a boatload of units this turn. Then in a few turns comes the 200 AP dump. The weight of all those units will inevitably push me back quite a bit and as Tall Blond mentioned my truck situation may soon be coming to a breaking point. At the end of my turn 20 I only have 8,330 in the pool and a whooping 101,551 in repair. I am no logistics expert but that does not seem good .

Going past the Don bend is suicide in 41, even if quite literally empty. Worth it to smash rails and manpower, but supply nosedives if you try to hold past there - additionally it's exceedingly risky to defend due to rail setup.

PeteJC wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:25 am I only have 8,330 in the pool

Well this is going to be interesting. Do let us know how you get on!

How to survive the 41 Winter?

Well as above pretty much and...

This is a massive game with many adjustments to make. So it is more about the philosophy about how you play from T1

• Try not to engage in combat with your motorised units
  
  Do not directly assign non motorised support units to motorised divisions. Eats up trucks
  
  Aim to capture as much of the enemy as possible whilst going as far East as possible. (Isolated unattended fort units will surrender via drive past.)
  
  Take out as many manpower centres as possible.
  
  Work methodically through each HQ to improve your leaders
  
  Every unit on the map needs supply so support units not required (construction or LW AA) should be moved to WE
  
  Move combat units with minimal combat value (AA coy) to WE
  
  Each turn check to ensure depots are sending supply East rather than West
  
  Create new depots on large railyards. If that location doesnt have an airbase build one.
  
  Get supply out of Frankfurt NSS by building nearby depots. Once these depots are at 100% set then to zero.
  
  Place an unused HQ on Frankfurt or possibly Prague, with a leader strong in Morale/Admin, high priority and assign SUs requiring refit
  
  Use Axis reserve sparingly as units in that box do not accumulate cpp
  
  Keep an eye on disbanding or withdrawing units. If they are not being actively used transfer them to WE early.
  
  Learn very quickly how to supply via Air transport, where possible leaving ground units on or adjacent to an airbase.
  
  Avoid unnecessary attrition by having a minimum number of units adjacent to an enemy unit
  
  Start to build Forts at least 4 weeks before you will need them
  
  Be prepared to retreat in non vital sectors

RedJohn wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:13 pm Going past the Don bend is suicide in 41, even if quite literally empty. Worth it to smash rails and manpower, but supply nosedives if you try to hold past there - additionally it's exceedingly risky to defend due to rail setup.

My strategy was/is that I was going to take Saratov and hold what I have until the 1/1 check and get an early win. At T15-16 (now turn 20) that seemed like a 20% chance. Now it is a pipedream. I went ahead with it as I now have room to retreat and hopefully by the time, I get back to my fortified line there will only be about half of the winter left. His rail will take time to catch up too and I have gobbled up manpower areas and we were not aware that factories can be moved manually so he lost the two factory cities in the Tambov region permanently. Long term we will see how that effects things. May plan was never to hold and winter so far east.

56ajax wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:50 am
Place an unused HQ on Frankfurt or possibly Prague, with a leader strong in Morale/Admin, high priority and assign SUs requiring refit

How do you get the SUs to this HQ? Currently I use OKH in Berlin to refit SUs

You can continue to put your SUs to OKH then the Hamburg extra Corps HQ can pull them from OKH.

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:57 pm You can continue to put your SUs to OKH then the Hamburg extra Corps HQ can pull them from OKH.

Sorry meant to say Franfurt not Hamburg. Mmmmm hamburgers and hotdogs. Fire up the grill.

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:59 pm

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:57 pm You can continue to put your SUs to OKH then the Hamburg extra Corps HQ can pull them from OKH.

Sorry meant to say Franfurt not Hamburg. Mmmmm hamburgers and hotdogs. Fire up the grill.

Ok, thx. Is it worth it? Because you lose two turns, if you use the extra Corps HQ.

impi07 wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:13 pm

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:59 pm

PeteJC wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:57 pm You can continue to put your SUs to OKH then the Hamburg extra Corps HQ can pull them from OKH.

Sorry meant to say Franfurt not Hamburg. Mmmmm hamburgers and hotdogs. Fire up the grill.

Ok, thx. Is it worth it? Because you lose two turns, if you use the extra Corps HQ.

To avoid a "middle man" HQ just put OKH on Frankfurt and as mentioned assign the SUs to it. I do not think OKH will send out low TOE units so they should stay put as they recuperate.

impi07 wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:36 pm

56ajax wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:50 am
Place an unused HQ on Frankfurt or possibly Prague, with a leader strong in Morale/Admin, high priority and assign SUs requiring refit

How do you get the SUs to this HQ? Currently I use OKH in Berlin to refit SUs

For whatever reason Berlin gets very busy. The HQ on Frankfurt I just move close to OKH and transfer then undo movement. Gamey I know but it does fix what I consider a game design limitation.