Matrix Games Forums

Super interested in this new strategy. Yugoslavian resources will help the German war machine. Excellent game Alvaro, really.

---

Yea you can do it. A3R, WIF, all have this option.

I have tried it and also seen it tried against me a few times. One word : risky!

Very weather dependent. Not rare at all that Germany gets bogged down in heavy rain until march in front of Belgrade. Could end up losing more than what is gained of the period (which is actually not that much percentage wise).

As far as the game been excellent, I can not think of a computer one better (in that same scale of course), that I have played.

I do this every game (as ncc1701e has seen), and I've yet to have it not pay off. If it goes well, you can get Greece as well and still get back in time to hit France. That said, I've not played many games, so I might get schooled here.

It just seems like a waste to have your two armored corps sitting around all winter gathering dust when they can be doing something useful.

Saw this strategy for the first time in a recent ongoing game. The main takeaway is that the Germans suddenly have access to the Med. at a time that the Brits are thin and weak on the ground in the M.E. with little to be spared from the defense of England until about mid 1940. Greece has been next and still stands (just barely) in May 1940. However Cyprus fell to a tiny German invasion. Not sure if it was possible to move from the Yugo southern port and hit the beaches in a single turn or if the Krauts were at sea for a turn and I just missed them. If so shame on me.

Not possible to reach Cyprus in a single move (within 24 hexes). And since no German escorts are available, and the Germans could at best have a single division at sea, the RN should easily stop anything trying as each British ships can try one by one (and the aircraft too if needed the turn after as air interception, and ground support too). Not 100% impossible, but would require extreme bad luck on British side to fail (or no RN ships left in the Med).

michaelCLARADY wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:00 pm Saw this strategy for the first time in a recent ongoing game. The main takeaway is that the Germans suddenly have access to the Med. at a time that the Brits are thin and weak on the ground in the M.E. with little to be spared from the defense of England until about mid 1940. Greece has been next and still stands (just barely) in May 1940. However Cyprus fell to a tiny German invasion. Not sure if it was possible to move from the Yugo southern port and hit the beaches in a single turn or if the Krauts were at sea for a turn and I just missed them. If so shame on me.

That was me..

No, it's not possible to hit Cyprus directly from Yugoslavia, it does take a turn at sea. You can use the Greece invasion to do this though, in which case you can land in Crete or southern Greece first, then get a straight shot. I can't recall in our game if I was able to sneak by or used Greece. Most times I try to sneak by the Brits are able to intercept, but I use 1-5 point German divisions for this, so the risk isn't huge.

The early ports are a huge reason why I like this strategy, but since there isn't much else to do in the winter of '39 it really makes sense to me either way, but in this particular game I messed up my timing and didn't get one of my armor units back to western Germany in time for the lowland invasion. It remains to be seen whether that will have an impact or not, and Greece could potentially hold out a while without the armor there.

kklemmick is teaching me a lesson. We are playing Europe 1939 small fleet winter 41.

Just after Poland, he invades Yugoslavia in 1939. Long invasion but by one cold turn, Yugoslavia was took out with one attack on the capital. Then Greece in April 1939. France in July - August 1940.

Now we are in October 1940 and Syria is invaded as well as Egypt. Royal Navy has destroyed one German division at sea and one Italian small corps by a port attack. But there are just too many Axis units around. In parallel, Vichy France is invaded and taken. Vichy North Africa is attacked.

There is a concentration of Axis troops in France ready for invading (I guess). Here, I must admit UK is not powerful enough. In fact no, Axis is too powerful or well played, I don't know.

Two topics:
1. Middle East is very hard to defend (in this game). 120 transports for Germany, 60 transports for Italy. As soon as a port is taken in Syria, transport interception at sea is no more important. Axis can bring an unlimited number of units. And this is too late for UK.

2. Vichy France. kklemmick is seeing no reason to not invade it just after signing the armistice. And he is right. There is really no consequence not to do it.

Thoughts?

1. The 120 German transport in the Med is indeed annoying. But not sure it can be fixed in this version of the game. Anyway, with one game it is tough to judge as one build for the expected, not the unexpected. So maybe with a different preparation after noticing that, you might come with a defense that make Syria much harder. Takes a few games to see for sure.

2. I also think it is not realistic for Germany to break its word only a week (for example) after signing an agreement, without consequences. At the very least, it should increase the percentage of activation of the USSR and the US as they now see even more clearly that Germany is not to be trusted. It will not bring those countries at war faster, but will at least improve their production making them stronger when they will be at war. Maybe also increase the US lend-lease to UK in such a case? Some board games even forbid a declaration of war on Vichy for the rest of the year (or a fixed number of months) safter its establishment.

1. Reducing German transport fleet from 120 to 60 would be perhaps a solution. Since Italy has also 60 transports.

2. Perhaps the invasion of Vichy France should change the event linked to the need to keep German units on the Polish/USSR border. If Germany is invading Vichy France, instead of 6 units, German must maintain 12 units. In line with Barbarossa but it is preventing an early invasion of Vichy France.

Can't change way transports points work. It will be improved WP2.

I knew it might be an issue early. SC3 has the same mechanism in a different way.

AlvaroSousa wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:57 pm
Can't change way transports points work. It will be improved WP2.

No but you can perhaps limit them.

No need to change the Game. Truth is kklemmick is just a very very good player.

This is similar to taking Norway on turn 3...
Just you take a huge amount of losses taking Yugoslavia early.

Weather and my armor being worn makes this too risky for me.
I always lose 6+ armor and twice that in infantry and a plane or 3 at least.
That means the point losses far outweigh the gain.

Opening the ports in the Med though...that would be nice. Then again the Allies have more than enough there to garrison all their ports including Cypress.

I have yet to figure out how to take it without losses that are unreplaceable before France.

michaelCLARADY wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:57 pm No need to change the Game. Truth is kklemmick is just a very very good player.

Indeed, can’t wait the next turn to see how I have been destroyed.

When I play someone much stronger than me, I usually try to read some philosophy before opening the turn and put the game and the universe in perspective.

It does not always work, still hurts...

Nirosi wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:07 pm When I play someone much stronger than me, I usually try to read some philosophy before opening the turn and put the game and the universe in perspective.

It does not always work, still hurts...

Stoic? or perhaps Klingon?

michaelCLARADY wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:08 am

Nirosi wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:07 pm When I play someone much stronger than me, I usually try to read some philosophy before opening the turn and put the game and the universe in perspective.

It does not always work, still hurts...

Stoic? or perhaps Klingon?

Stoically Klingon

ncc1701e wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:47 pm 1. Middle East is very hard to defend (in this game). 120 transports for Germany, 60 transports for Italy. As soon as a port is taken in Syria, transport interception at sea is no more important. Axis can bring an unlimited number of units. And this is too late for UK.

2. Vichy France. kklemmick is seeing no reason to not invade it just after signing the armistice. And he is right. There is really no consequence not to do it.

Thoughts?

I have never been able to hold the Middle East from an Axis player who really wanted it. The best I've been able to do is to delay them long enough to mess up a USSR invasion in 1941. In fact, many games I see the Axis take the Middle East and still have enough landing ships left over to invade England in 1940/1941 and get Spain in the war. That said, I've stopped doing that myself because the added US production seems to more than offset the Spanish entry, even if it means the Axis can easily isolate the entire Med. Limiting German transports might help some, but I think the real issue is that the UK simply can't field the mass required to hold there by the time the Axis can hit, and has only a single Armor unit, so forcing the Axis back is extremely hard. Maybe giving the UK an additional Mech unit in the Middle east would help?

For Vichy, it seems like adding a US entry hit to invading it might make it more of a choice. I mean, there is 6 or so production points Germany gets by taking it, so adding enough US entry to offset that with US production would make it a wash - but as it is, the only reason I see not to invade is it gives the UK a few more ships, which is really a non-factor IMO.