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So you get 1 point if you have an R/D factory at 30 towards faster development.
So if you have a factory at less than 30 you get nothing, like 15 working factories
Do you get 2 points for 60 factories in one city or is it only 30+30 in two cities that gives you 2 points?

From what I have read on the forum, it is a die roll every turn which has X/30 chance of producing the point (X is the number of factories working on that model in that place). But there is an absolute limit of 1 point so having 60 factories in the same cluster (slot) working on the model does not ever produce 2 points. I think if you have another factory cluster of 30 working the same model you could get a second point in the same city.
That's why the pro IJ fans always tell you to stop your expansion at 30 per cluster. I assume research and production of aircraft follow the same programming.

The production facility does make more than one airframe per day.
So having a size 60 production facility will give you 2 airplanes per day. They are generally made in multiples of 30 to have more predictable production rate. A size 10 factory will generally get you 120 planes/year over the course of the war, but in some months it can make nothing, while in others more than 20 because of the 10/30 chance.

Gratch1111 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:00 am So you get 1 point if you have an R/D factory at 30 towards faster development.
So if you have a factory at less than 30 you get nothing, like 15 working factories
Do you get 2 points for 60 factories in one city or is it only 30+30 in two cities that gives you 2 points?

You don't automatically get any air frame research points. With 30 factories you have the greatest chance of getting one point every day but there's still a small chance of not getting it as there's a random factor. Having fewer factories reduces the chance, having more has no effect that I've every seen, there again I've never researched anything over 30 for a long time. It's quick to build when it comes into production. Why is simple, repairing a research factory is random and the further away it's due thelong it get. Repairing a production factory is not random, all you need is supply.

If you want to increase research use two or more 30x factories as each location gets a chance.

You can also boost each factory reasearch with the engone bonus where having +500 plus engines of the type used by the aircraft in the pool adds 1 research point each turn for each factory.

If I remember this correctly. You can get more than 1 research point after size 30 but it is not automatic, there is no engine bonus after size 30 either, instead of a 1/30 chance like you get for the first 30 size it is more like a 1/255 chance so it is not worth trying for since the factory probably won't be completed until shortly before production starts.

So it sounds like a 30 factory cluster in one slot doesn't use the formula I presumed (X/30 where X is the number of factories in the cluster). You are saying each of those 30 factories gets a 1/30 chance die roll so there is a chance of getting multiple points of research or production, but also a chance of 0 production. Statistically the odds are 30:30 or 1 in the long run.
RJ, I have not heard of the 1/255 chance for factories above the 30 mark in the cluster, but I have never done IJ production so I really have no idea how that works. Sounds like a big enough reason to not invest supply in expanding the factory cluster over 30.

And I am pretty sure that if a factory 'stack' is not fully repaired, it does not produce any points. Meaning a 29 (1 damaged) R&D factory gives you no points until that last one is fixed. Which will happen at a random point in time, as was stated above.
In my case, I like to upgrade R&D factories point by point, and only order the next expansion point when I have enough supply in place. But I also play bottlenecks where each factory point costs 3k supply so...

JanSako wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:37 pm And I am pretty sure that if a factory 'stack' is not fully repaired, it does not produce any points. Meaning a 29 (1 damaged) R&D factory gives you no points until that last one is fixed. Which will happen at a random point in time, as was stated above.
In my case, I like to upgrade R&D factories point by point, and only order the next expansion point when I have enough supply in place. But I also play bottlenecks where each factory point costs 3k supply so...

Are you saying they will never produce anything until they get to 30? But Japan has all kinds of factory clusters that are very small. Look at Gifu and Maebashi at game start. It would be disastrous for Japan to get nothing from them for the many days (and much supply) it takes to expand them all to 30.

BBfanboy wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:43 pm

JanSako wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:37 pm And I am pretty sure that if a factory 'stack' is not fully repaired, it does not produce any points. Meaning a 29 (1 damaged) R&D factory gives you no points until that last one is fixed. Which will happen at a random point in time, as was stated above.
In my case, I like to upgrade R&D factories point by point, and only order the next expansion point when I have enough supply in place. But I also play bottlenecks where each factory point costs 3k supply so...

Are you saying they will never produce anything until they get to 30? But Japan has all kinds of factory clusters that are very small. Look at Gifu and Maebashi at game start. It would be disastrous for Japan to get nothing from them for the many days (and much supply) it takes to expand them all to 30.

If the factory is size 1, they get the 1/30 chance to advance the date of the device by 1%. if the factory is size 2 but one point is damaged, they get nothing until the damaged point is repaired.
If the airframe under R&D have say 5 different factories of size 5 or 6 AND they are all fully repaired, they have a good chance of getting a point every day on average. Any factories that have damaged points are skipped for the daily point chance. Can't be doing drafting in a small office if the workers are pouring concrete outside!

RangerJoe wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:32 pm If I remember this correctly. You can get more than 1 research point after size 30 but it is not automatic, there is no engine bonus after size 30 either, instead of a 1/30 chance like you get for the first 30 size it is more like a 1/255 chance so it is not worth trying for since the factory probably won't be completed until shortly before production starts.

I tried this with modding a game before start.
A fully repaired size 180 factory never failed to give that 2nd point every day for at least a year. It does disregard the engine pool though. There were 500+ engines of that particular type present in the pool,so 3 points every turn for that factory alone.

. Somewhere on the forum years ago a dev (?) Explained the exact algorithm.

RangerJoe wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:32 pm If I remember this correctly. You can get more than 1 research point after size 30 but it is not automatic, there is no engine bonus after size 30 either, instead of a 1/30 chance like you get for the first 30 size it is more like a 1/255 chance so it is not worth trying for since the factory probably won't be completed until shortly before production starts.

Didn't know that

tolsdorff wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:22 pm

RangerJoe wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:32 pm If I remember this correctly. You can get more than 1 research point after size 30 but it is not automatic, there is no engine bonus after size 30 either, instead of a 1/30 chance like you get for the first 30 size it is more like a 1/255 chance so it is not worth trying for since the factory probably won't be completed until shortly before production starts.

I tried this with modding a game before start.
A fully repaired size 180 factory never failed to give that 2nd point every day for at least a year. It does disregard the engine pool though. There were 500+ engines of that particular type present in the pool,so 3 points every turn for that factory alone.

. Somewhere on the forum years ago a dev (?) Explained the exact algorithm.

Interesting and first time I've heard this.

Practically, if your trying yo do that in game the war would probably have ended before you could build them. As some one pointed out only fully repair research fatories generate research points.

Want my advice is.
Forget research factories >30 your research time will be quicker, build mutlple 30x factories instead.
Don't expand anything were the original due date is 3 years hence unless you think you have spare supply. Remeber the further away you are to the original due date the slower repair time for research factories is.
Build engine factories so you get +500 engines surplus

JanSako wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:37 pm And I am pretty sure that if a factory 'stack' is not fully repaired, it does not produce any points. Meaning a 29 (1 damaged) R&D factory gives you no points until that last one is fixed. Which will happen at a random point in time, as was stated above.
In my case, I like to upgrade R&D factories point by point, and only order the next expansion point when I have enough supply in place. But I also play bottlenecks where each factory point costs 3k supply so...

Yes to all that.

Posted twice!

Chris21wen wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:47 am Posted twice!

So that's a definite 'Yes' then?

If you look up the user "Mike Solli" and check his AARs, there are good discussions about the Japanese economics and airplane research.

Chris21wen wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:37 am ...
Interesting and first time I've heard this.

Practically, if your trying yo do that in game the war would probably have ended before you could build them. As some one pointed out only fully repair research fatories generate research points.

Want my advice is.
Forget research factories >30 your research time will be quicker, build mutlple 30x factories instead.
Don't expand anything were the original due date is 3 years hence unless you think you have spare supply. Remeber the further away you are to the original due date the slower repair time for research factories is.
Build engine factories so you get +500 engines surplus

Here is with Michaelm had to say about it :

quote=michaelm75au post_id=2765001 time=1316264188 user_id=86454]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In simple terms
(a) A factory will produce a random R&D between 0 and the number of devices in the factory ie 1 device = 0, 2 devices = 0,1, 3 devices =0,1,2, 4 devices = 0,1,2,3, 10 devices = 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc.
(b) The random R&D is then divided by 10. Any random R&D of less than 10 will be '0', otherwise it will be the ten's component of the random R&D.
(c) If there are no damaged devices in factory (this is a given as there must be NO damaged ones present), add '1' to the number from (b).
(d) If the number from (c) exceeds 3, it is capped at '3'.

The number from (d) is added to the a/c development counter - this will be a number from 1 to 3 inclusive.
Once the counter exceeds 100, it moves the available date sooner by a month and resets the development counter.

So the above explaination is the correct one once q4 is released?

There is a step before (a) that is missing.
(a.1) Number of initial devices from factory is as a/c production ( active devices + random(30)/30). If this number is 0 or any damaged devices present, then no R&D this turn from this factory.
(a.2) A factory will produce a random R&D between 1 and the number of devices from step (a.1) ie 1 device = 1, 2 devices = 1,2, 3 devices =1,2,3, 4 devices = 1,2,3,4 10 devices = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc.

This puts it back to what was there before the p8 muckup.

[/quote]

In this thread. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/post ... p=2765001

Chris21wen wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:37 am
Interesting and first time I've heard this.

Practically, if your trying yo do that in game the war would probably have ended before you could build them. As some one pointed out only fully repair research fatories generate research points.

Want my advice is.
Forget research factories >30 your research time will be quicker, build mutlple 30x factories instead.
Don't expand anything were the original due date is 3 years hence unless you think you have spare supply. Remeber the further away you are to the original due date the slower repair time for research factories is.
Build engine factories so you get +500 engines surplus

There are more threads and info to be found way back when,but in general I completely agree with your recommendations as they work fine and are easy to remember.
Go for the 30 size, fully repaired factories and streamline upgrade paths for damage reduction. Do not change types too much As that decreases the size of the factory (your 30(0) factory will change to 0(22)) and switching 1 engine to 2 or 4 engine type and vice versa increases that size reduction (30(0) will now be a 0(16)). There are some other things to watch out for. Numdydars production primer is a decent starting point

Another important item to remember is if your R & D is following the upgrade path, there is no decrease nor further damage to the factory. So once a factory is repaired it can be upgraded to the next in line. Some might want a house rule so no upgrade aircraft can be skipped although the next upgrade can be finished at the same time. So the Judy 1, 2, and even the Judy 3 can finish at the same date! Or at least Judy 2 and 3 finish at the same time.