Matrix Games Forums

Really guys?

You don't allow the community to change a unit's target type?

The following is the list of default unit types, each with their own, predefined "Target Type". Of these 48+ unit slots, there are only 2 "Tank" target types, with no ablity to create any more... or reassign any that already exist.

Even if you add a new unit-type, that unit-type is stuck using whatever target-type has been pre-assigned to the slot.



You guys afford a lot of flexibility regarding renaming stuff, but not being able to assign a unit's "Target Type" is most likely a deal-breaker for me.

; Unit IDs
#UNIT_ID_0= HQ
- Target Type = Soft
#UNIT_ID_1= Garrison
- Target Type = Soft
#UNIT_ID_2= Brigade
- Target Type = Soft
#UNIT_ID_3= Division
- Target Type = Hard
#UNIT_ID_4= Corps
- etc...
#UNIT_ID_5= Army
#UNIT_ID_6= Mechanized
#UNIT_ID_7= Special Forces
#UNIT_ID_8= Engineers
#UNIT_ID_9= Paratroops
#UNIT_ID_10= Cavalry Brigade
#UNIT_ID_11= Cavalry Division
#UNIT_ID_12= Cavalry Corps
#UNIT_ID_13= Partisans
#UNIT_ID_14= Pillbox
#UNIT_ID_15= Anti-Air
#UNIT_ID_16= Rocket Artillery
#UNIT_ID_17= Field Artillery
#UNIT_ID_18= Heavy Artillery
#UNIT_ID_19= Rail Gun
#UNIT_ID_20= Coastal Gun
#UNIT_ID_21= Rockets
#UNIT_ID_22= Reconnaissance
#UNIT_ID_23= Armored Train
#UNIT_ID_24= Anti-Tank
#UNIT_ID_25= Light Tanks
#UNIT_ID_26= Tanks
#UNIT_ID_27= Heavy Tanks
#UNIT_ID_28= Airships
#UNIT_ID_29= Fighters
#UNIT_ID_30= Tactical Bombers
#UNIT_ID_31= Medium Bombers
#UNIT_ID_32= Strategic Bombers
#UNIT_ID_33= Maritime Bombers
#UNIT_ID_34= Kamikazes
#UNIT_ID_35= Dreadnought
#UNIT_ID_36= Battleship
#UNIT_ID_37= Battle Cruiser
#UNIT_ID_38= Heavy Cruiser
#UNIT_ID_39= Light Cruiser
#UNIT_ID_40= Destroyer
#UNIT_ID_41= Escort Carrier
#UNIT_ID_42= Carrier
#UNIT_ID_43= Sub
#UNIT_ID_44= Motor Torpedo Boat
#UNIT_ID_45= Mulberry
#UNIT_ID_46= Troop Transport
#UNIT_ID_47= Amphibious Transport
#UNIT_ID_48= Amphibious Transport (LR)

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This was mainly for the AI's sake IIRC in past threads on this topic, so that it uses the right type of units for the appropriate scripts.

Yes, this is an old issue it appears... one that has yet to ever be addressed.

Still, the community should be able to change a unit's target type. It is quite limiting for those working on custom scenarios to be hamstrung by the default set of target-typed units.

It really becomes appearant just how limiting when viewing General Unit Data (see below) (third table).

https://github.com/mlshort/Fall-Weis-II ... nitData.md
(note: I did not even list the unused target-type of "Kamikaze")

As it is now, modders are limited to:
1 sub unit-type slot;
2 tank unit-type slots;
5 lt armor unit-type slots; (this is plenty)
2 carrier unit-type slots;
1 fighter unit-type slots;
3 bomber unit-type slots;
2 strat bomber unit-type slots;
3 arty unit-types slots;
3 strat arty unit-type slots;
1 AA unit-type slots;
a bunch of hard/soft slots (which should be convertable to another type, if desired)
a useless kamakazi unit-type slot;
...

The link above is to a Unit Data table for a set of units that contains a Tank Div, Tank Corps and Tank Army. But it is impossible for all three to use the "Tank" target-type as there are only two slots available!

What exactly is going on when you change a slot's target-type (presuming it was implemented)?

All it does is change an index into a combat results table for the unit class. (presuming you are not changing from ground<->air<->naval)

I have a hard time believing that was so difficult to implement.

The original intention was to indeed make it modifiable, and while on the list, it is unfortunately not something that was ever come back to as too much code would have to be re-written. We just hoped there were enough unit slots and types that modders could work around the limitation at the time.

Currently, it is a huge limitation.

Probably, would not be so bad had there been more unit slots with a more even distribution of target-types available.

There are some very interesting features in the game engine that are not fully available to be used due to the restrictions in place. The production system is also very interesting, but is rather vanilla in all of its incarnations due to the lack of the ability to fully exploit it with upgraded/enchanced target-types.

For example, the game affords the ability to enable unit-types based on date. That feature is barely used in custom scenarios as there are simply not enough unit slots available (or ability to re-purpose other, unused slots).

For example, German Panzergrenadiers were not organized as division-sized units until 1942. Up, until then, they were mostly motorized infantry. Would love to introduce a new unit class to represent this.

Others that come to mind (off the top of my head...)
Ski units;
Mountain Corps;
Fortress Infantry;
Fighter-Bombers;
Luftwaffe Field units;

As the war drug on, German Infantry evolved to become more Infantry-AntiTank hybrids and incorporated many more Anti-Tank weapon systems. Would love to be able to introduce a new class of units to represent this.

I would love the ability to re-purpose the, rather cartoonish, "Armored Train", to something more representative of the conflict, but can't unless it is going to be a "Lt Armor" unit. (which, ironically, there are plenty of "Lt Armor" slots available and have no need of, yet another)

If you cannot complete the target-type assignment implementation, then at least provide an increase number and more useful distribution of target-type slots.

Only one fighter unit type that can be used? Ouch!
1 AA type.
2 Tank unit types.
Naval types (those seem to be well (overly?) represented...)
...

I reiterate, what you have now is very limiting...

I completely understand, and just being honest here, it is not likely to change any time soon, or at all here unfortunately and at this point in the lifecycle of the games.

DarkHorse2 wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:14 pm
For example, German Panzergrenadiers were not organized as division-sized units until 1942. Up, until then, they were mostly motorized infantry. Would love to introduce a new unit class to represent this.

Or the ability to convert via script one type of unit for another. I am running into this in my Euro scenario: the Germans converted all "light" armor units to regular armor early on in the war, but once made a light armor is destined to remain such for the rest of the game.

My wish here is to have the ability to put in unique stats for single units, including purchase cost, like how WiF does things. [I disliked their random choice mechanism there tho-just make the Bismarcks more expensive than the Scharnhorsts, more strategic choices what a concept, but I digress]