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I haven't been playing SE Oceania extensively, but another player I know, who recently picked up Oceania DLC found he couldn't get any logi points above 500 (even with perfect relations and investing in the MTH) for doing anything meaning for like am amphibious landing invasion. He has stopped playing since being disappointed that.

So am I wondering what other players are getting as far as logi points goes for MTH contracts? is there some other thing that is needed to get higher logi points?

First of all, you should note that it's possible to stack contracts. That is, if you sign multiple contracts into the same hex, the logistical points will be cumulative as long as the contracts are active. That's the only way I've been able to generate enough points for a real contested landing. But that takes a long time since you can only sign one per turn, and can be really tedious if the MTH keeps offering every hex except the one you've already contracted into. You can also run into silly issues with how much LP a certain maritime route has if the source ports for the contracts are different, even if the target is the same (not a problem with the game per se, just be aware of it).

The game does have options for:

• 500 points
• 2500 points
• 9000 points
• 32000 points

which was visible in an earlier version where due to a bug MTHs always offered all of those. If not for that I'd also assume that 500 points is the maximum. For some reason the MTH's need a ridiculously large buffer of uncontracted tonnage to offer anything more than 500. When I tested it, there needed to be almost 6000 uncontracted tons for the 2500 point option to appear. In practice that is a ridiculously large fleet you'll have to build for the MTH (with the Shipyarding stratagem) and in SP it gets fun if the AI keeps contracting their tonnage faster than you can generate the required cards.

There really should be more options between 500 and 2500 (or a slider?) and I don't know why the buffer is so large. The amount of tonnage each ship gives to the MTHs should probably be buffed in general, or higher level ports should give a *level multiplier to the points, or both. In practice if air units are available and the distance allows, in mid-late game it's much more feasible to use air bridges. You'll have significantly more logistical points - a heavy aircraft can easily get 40k cargo space, and 270 planes will thus carry over 10k points with no issues - and no risk of the route getting cut for reasons outside your control. Doesn't quite seem the correct balance between sea and air transport.

And the newer betas will probably make MTH logistics even worse with the increased ammo load.

I myself only learnt the basics a while ago regarding MTH, so this is good info. I had initially thought the Shipyarding stratagem was about giving the MTH more ships for protection as often some MTH fight others and wiping them out, I didn't realize it also is for them being able to offer you higher logi-points, but I guess it makes sense, more ships to carry your forces.

Hopefully when Vic is back from his break and is finished finalizing his latest updates to SE, hopefully he can turn his attention to the Oceania DLC and fix these issues you have pointed out and hopefully making it less tedious. Even if you don't fully make use of MTH contracts, like not understanding all of the mechanics involved, you can still have a good source of income once you start investing in a MTH.

Daza99 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:01 am I had initially thought the Shipyarding stratagem was about giving the MTH more ships for protection as often some MTH fight others and wiping them out, I didn't realize it also is for them being able to offer you higher logi-points, but I guess it makes sense, more ships to carry your forces.

For some exact numbers, each ship gives 500 tonnage to the MTH. So to reach the 5500-6000 buffer, the MTH will need at least 11-12 ships. It's very rare for them to build even this many on their own, and commonly the MTH will have some tonnage contracted (AI in particular seems to make weird contracts all the time), so in practice it's usually more like 20 ships they'll need for you to see the 2500 point option.

Each shipyarding stratagem costs 6 PP and 2000 credits, and 2-4 ships (random roll) will be built. So you should assume around 5 uses, 30 PP and 10 000 credits. After that it's time to pay for the contract too, but at least relations will be high after all that shipbuilding.

Magirot wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:08 amFor some reason the MTH's need a ridiculously large buffer of uncontracted tonnage to offer anything more than 500. When I tested it, there needed to be almost 6000 uncontracted tons for the 2500 point option to appear.

Magirot wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:15 am For some exact numbers, each ship gives 500 tonnage to the MTH. So to reach the 5500-6000 buffer, the MTH will need at least 11-12 ships. It's very rare for them to build even this many on their own, and commonly the MTH will have some tonnage contracted (AI in particular seems to make weird contracts all the time), so in practice it's usually more like 20 ships they'll need for you to see the 2500 point option.

Correction to this. It seems there's no buffer per se, but rather thresholds in ship numbers that the MTH needs to reach first for the options to appear:

500 point option: always available
2500 point option: 20 ships
9000 point option: 50 ships
32000 point option: 100 ships

On top of that they are somewhat limited by contracted tonnage, apparently taking into account the highest contracted tonnage within 4 turns, but without a buffer, in fact they might apparently be able to go over the available tonnage amount a bit before the option disappears.

So, an MTH with 19 ships (9500 total tonnage) and nothing contracted can never make a 2500 point deal, while an MTH with 20 ships (10 000 total tonnage) that has contracted 15 of them (7500 points) can still make at least one 2500 point deal. A bit confusing imo since the thresholds aren't visible anywhere, and weirdly limiting since as said, I've never seen the MTHs build this many ships on their own.

Edit: actually, the parts after the 20 ship threshold seem to work even weirder. I made a bug report: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &p=5119133

Increasing contract sizes on offer in next open beta. Big thanks for bringing this topic up.