Matrix Games Forums

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:19 am What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:19 am What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

ernieschwitz wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:45 am

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:19 am What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

ATG = Advanced Tactics Gold.
SPWaW = Steel Panthers World at War?

mainsworthy wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:09 am You cant not make a comment when you mention the great SPWaW, the Mega Campaines it comes with are so cool, please make it run on Win11 ? all they have to do is make old games run on win 11 and they could resell them

Kuokkanen wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:55 pm What comes to gameplay, when we look back far enough, there may not be even mouse support. Wargames with lots of units and no mouse to point & click. My father got a PC with 40 MHz processor (AMD 80386SX if you care) and without a mouse. I played Sid Meier's Civilization and Empire Deluxe with it. We got a mouse for it eventually.

mainsworthy wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:09 am You cant not make a comment when you mention the great SPWaW, the Mega Campaines it comes with are so cool, please make it run on Win11 ? all they have to do is make old games run on win 11 and they could resell them

You mean like WinSPWW2 & WinSPMBT?

GaryChildress wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 am I'm a graphics person to an extent. I appreciate good graphics in a game, however, with that said I qualify "good" graphics as graphics that have aesthetic appeal. I know of some 2D games that have more appealing graphics than 3D games and visa versa. There are cheesy graphics in both 2D and 3D and there are beautiful graphics in both 2D and 3D. Both genres have their appeal at different times, depending upon what kind of mood I'm in. But it's always easy to tell a game where the creators really didn't care much about how the game looked and were just trying to push something out the door with the least amount of effort necessary.

There are also games that have great AI and great graphics. Games that have poor AI and poor graphics and games that have a combination of either (good graphics but bad AI or good AI but bad graphics). A game is a complete package and some games are better polished than others. Polish is always good. However, 2D doesn't necessarily mean lack of polish and 3D doesn't necessarily mean more polish.

There's also the game mechanics to consider. Some games are boring to play irrespective of how good the AI or graphics are and some games are fun to play irrespective of how poor the AI or graphics are.

Age of a game doesn't always equate to better or worse either. There are old games that I still play and there are brand new games that I have no interest in and visa versa.

In short, quality comes in various aspects with games, including AI, graphics, and game mechanics (among other things) a perfect game has the best of all those, and the worst games have the worst of all those and there's everything in between.

Modding is also a plus for a game. How easy a game is to mod and how radically it can be modded go a long way in playability also. 2D is usually easier to mod than 3D and having set parameters in an editor or text file that can be easily tweaked is usually easier than having to use code or special programs to mod. So there is some advantage to simplicity where average gamers are concerned also.

In the end, gaming is the spiciest spice of life as far as I'm concerned. I'd be bored out of my gourd if I still had to entertain myself with an Atari 2600 and TV. Although, my social life would probably be much better. However, people are unpredictable and you can't program them to do what you want when they get frustrating to deal with. So there's that too.

I guess we're like the Pepsi Generation or something now?

mainsworthy wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:31 am

GaryChildress wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 am I'm a graphics person to an extent. I appreciate good graphics in a game, however, with that said I qualify "good" graphics as graphics that have aesthetic appeal. I know of some 2D games that have more appealing graphics than 3D games and visa versa. There are cheesy graphics in both 2D and 3D and there are beautiful graphics in both 2D and 3D. Both genres have their appeal at different times, depending upon what kind of mood I'm in. But it's always easy to tell a game where the creators really didn't care much about how the game looked and were just trying to push something out the door with the least amount of effort necessary.

There are also games that have great AI and great graphics. Games that have poor AI and poor graphics and games that have a combination of either (good graphics but bad AI or good AI but bad graphics). A game is a complete package and some games are better polished than others. Polish is always good. However, 2D doesn't necessarily mean lack of polish and 3D doesn't necessarily mean more polish.

There's also the game mechanics to consider. Some games are boring to play irrespective of how good the AI or graphics are and some games are fun to play irrespective of how poor the AI or graphics are.

Age of a game doesn't always equate to better or worse either. There are old games that I still play and there are brand new games that I have no interest in and visa versa.

In short, quality comes in various aspects with games, including AI, graphics, and game mechanics (among other things) a perfect game has the best of all those, and the worst games have the worst of all those and there's everything in between.

Modding is also a plus for a game. How easy a game is to mod and how radically it can be modded go a long way in playability also. 2D is usually easier to mod than 3D and having set parameters in an editor or text file that can be easily tweaked is usually easier than having to use code or special programs to mod. So there is some advantage to simplicity where average gamers are concerned also.

In the end, gaming is the spiciest spice of life as far as I'm concerned. I'd be bored out of my gourd if I still had to entertain myself with an Atari 2600 and TV. Although, my social life would probably be much better. However, people are unpredictable and you can't program them to do what you want when they get frustrating to deal with. So there's that too.

I guess we're like the Pepsi Generation or something now?

I only part agree, games old or new and 2D or 3D or good graphics or not, or graeat AI or not, can all be good or bad and mood contributes BUT BUT there are far more old game that appeal than new I would choose WiTP over many new games or SPWaW, its the wargame genra that suits old games

Zovs wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:07 pm Well there is some beauty in older games, but good graphics still counts a lot especially with good game play. But what is even more important is updating older games with newer technology so that they still work on modern computers.

A prime example is the WDS series of games, they were originally (most of them anyway) created by John Tiller (JTS) back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But when John passed away, WDS got the rights to the code and had been working with JTS and HPS for over two decades. they have continued to update and improve all the series of games (i.e., the Musket & Pike series, the Napoleonic series, the American Civil War series, the First World War series, the Panzer Campaign series, the Panzer Battles series, the Modern Campaign series and most likely soon the Early American War series).

What I mean by graphic beauty is in some of my mods for the WDS PzC series such as:



Or my same modified mod for the Modern Campaign series:

A zoomed out view:



a zoomed in view:



One more zoomed in view with a different hill height:



In this case to me anyway, the prettier or better graphics on a good stable and awesome engine is much more enjoyable then crappy graphics on a good engine.

YMMV