Matrix Games Forums

50 Planetary Exterminators can't destroy a planet late game, well it does but very slowly, in some cases though not enough to counter the planet's population growth. There is slow troop reduction which allows invasion, but against a race with over a 100 planets this is a very tedious and costly operation.

What I also noticed, and I am assuming this is due to recent changes in the game's mechanics, is that infrastructure damage is non existent. It used to be that bombarding would destroy infrastructure thus the planet's shields would eventually go down and the bombardment effectiveness would dramatically improve. This does not happen now.

So either PE bombardment has been spiked or shields overpowered, or it is a bug with infrastructure not being destroyed. There is another possibility, that infrastructure is being rebuilt in a microsecond. Either way it is a game breaking mechanic.

Maybe the bombardment mechanic has been changed and we are supposed to use a bombardment weapon combo that bypasses shields. Help would be appreciated if this is the case.

Vanilla game -- Could the devs please clarify whether Mk2 shields are meant to be totally invulnerable to any bombardment strength whatsoever? and why this is the direction they have chosen to take the game, or if this is just a matter requiring review for rebalance?

I believe recent adjustments (AI building Mk2 shields earlier and universally thoughout their colonies, and quite dramatic increases to reputation damage from bombardment and invasion) have made late game victory improbable in the hard+ modes.

It appears that the only way to beat a colony with Mk2 shields is by spec ops or invasion. Against a 50+ colony faction (or even 100+ which is not uncommon in hard+ modes currently), this is not only a grinding rinse and repeat, but an improbable victory. Assuming a player is willing to go from planet to planet 50+ times, he then has to face the inevitability that every other faction has dramatically increased in strength in the time taken. This makes it necessary to begin the process all over again with another race.

Furthermore the AI's ability to attack at multiple vulnerable points seems to have been improved, making it less likely that a slow conquest is a winning strategy. There is no way a player can control the number of conflict points that the AI can. At the moment, I don't see how a player can even remotely win against a faction with equal or near equal strength.

Why couldn't there have been a compromise, that Mk2s take longer to be destroyed? Why the need to slow down the late game so much when lag is such an issue.

Thanks for your feedback.

As far as we know bombardment is working as intended. We do hear and understand your feedback and consider ways to improve bombardment in the future.

Thanks for the response. I am unsure of what you meant tho. I can destroy a planet with a Mk1 shield with a single fleet in a couple of minutes. Is that intended? With 5 similar fleets cannot take down a planet with a Mk2 in 15 minutes. This is an extraordinay jump in shield performance. Is this also intended? If it is intended what is the purpose --to slow down the game?

Is it intended that bombardment is not effective as a late game weapon?

Mass drivers and high end bombardment can punch through shields and damage troops, which is still helpful.

Maybe planetary shields could consume caslon while in action, making a long term seige that wears down planetary caslon stockpiles a viable counter.

Roller wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:43 pm Mass drivers and high end bombardment can punch through shields and damage troops, which is still helpful.

Yeah it is, but in my mind not for late game because if you have 100+ planets to conquer, which can happen quite often in a hard+ game, it is too grinding. But mainly it is too slow because a 100+ faction will have fleets as strong as yours and you need to whittle down its ability to replenish those fleets quite quickly. And all the while your reputation is taking a hit -- this was also boosted recently. I found that by the time I had defeated a large faction, another faction had grown at a much faster pace to again pose a problem.

Also, the last game I played where this became an issue, the AI seemed more than capable of attacking many more points than I could control, which in my mind seems to be a recent development. I had 15 attack fleets in play which I struggled to manage and the AI seemed to have many more. This combination of factors is what is causing an issue for me -- most players won't understand this unless they reach this stage in a hard+ game where both factions are fully maxed out on research and have equal fleet disposition and colony numbers.

My strategy until the deployment of Mk2 shields in a game is to launch as many as ten fleets to bombard planets simultaneously, maybe invade one colony to capture an area, then launch another ten fleets. It's all over in a matter of minutes, because even if the faction can finally get enough fleets to me, it's ability to replenish those fleets has been severely diminished.

Maybe this is what the devs were trying to stop. If it is, it's a weird way to go about it, because untill late game it's still a viable strategy. So instead of slowing down the mid game, they've chosen to slow down the late game, where the AI factions are overpowerful and fleet to fleet contact usually involves as many as 6 massive 1000+ strength fleets battling it out in game breaking lag, and this was the very thing they were trying to avoid by cutting back the victory conditions from 70% to 60%.

AKicebear wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:03 am Maybe planetary shields could consume caslon while in action, making a long term seige that wears down planetary caslon stockpiles a viable counter.

Cute idea. AFAIK there is no negative with Mk2 shields. [Edit] Sorry I misread your comment to mean do shields currently have negatves. Yes they could mitigate the use of shields by making it costly to run them, or they could introduce new bombard weaponry to counter shields. Simplest would be to lower the invulnerability of the Mk2. I wouldn't be too concerned it the Mk2 were as much as 100% more powerful than the Mk1, but atm they are essentially god-like[/Edit]

Firstly the issue is not just a Mk2 shield issue but a rep damage and shield issue compounding issue. What I found is that in a prolonged campaign, even if you beat the faction by landing troops on every single colony, another faction will have caught up to you because of the negative rep.

Secondly, try a seige style campaign late game with 4-6 1000+ strength fleets bearing down on you. Now multiply that by 100+ which is the number of colonies the faction might have.... The whole idea is to avoid long campaigns to reduce negative rep damage.

I'm now playing a hard + restless game in public beta. Seems to be a lot less late game lag which is a significant development, so hat's off to the devs for their hard work.

Also I'm at 68% victory conditions and the closest faction is 25% (Yes, I chose to play on and take out a troublesome Mortalen faction. I like to have a little fun) What changed? Well I got a dream run, I think because I had several luxury deposits, so I was able to get ahead and stay ahead. And the factions were always behind on the research tree, which meant no Mk2s. This is not the norm. Usually I am playing catchup.

But just to show how big a hit the rep takes, before I attacked the faction (50 colonies) I was at 75%. My fleets were at 1000+ strength and the faction's 200+. It was a cakewalk and over very quickly.

And that reduction from 75% to 68% was largely due to economic growth taking a hit, despite growing my territory massively and taking over all mining operations in the newly acquired areas. So you can see in a more challenging situation with say two other factions of equal strength, by the time you have taken out one faction in a prolonged Mk2 shield type scenario, the other faction will have overtaken you and you have to begin it all again, if you have the patience for it.