Matrix Games Forums

Not a lot of new hex-based wargames being produced in the Matrix/Slitherine world the last couple of years. Is that indicative of a changing business model, or just few new PC hex-based wargames being developed in general?

Yes, Matrix has produced a few lately, but it seems to me not as active as in the past.

Anyone have insights into this, or am I just wrong?

They all take time especially with the modern systems that can do more so the games become more complex.

to be honest the games are so deep and complex, I will have something to do forever with what already exists, all i want is old games to run on modern PCs

and you dont know what you have already got untill its gone, long live matrix

gwgardner wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:50 pm Not a lot of new hex-based wargames being produced in the Matrix/Slitherine world the last couple of years. Is that indicative of a changing business model, or just few new PC hex-based wargames being developed in general?

Yes, Matrix has produced a few lately, but it seems to me not as active as in the past.

Anyone have insights into this, or am I just wrong?

Hmm. what about Valor and Victory, War in the East 2, Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive, Shadow Empire, Warplan/ Warplan Pacific, Strategic Command, Campaign Series: Vietnam. (hope I didn't miss any)? We are awash in great gaming!

I yearn for the old AH hex-based wargames to be adapted to the PC. Relatively simple OOBs, units with AF-DF-MF and maybe range, simple Terrain Effects Charts, simple Combat Results Tables, and relatively competent AI computer opponent. And an editor, so players can make adjustments or even create a new game. All these newer games have fancy graphics, in-depth detail for historical accuracy and realism, and other bells and whistles because the PC can handle it all. Great. Know what's missing? The "fun factor" of wanting to play and replay a game over and over again to see if some different strategy works better than what you did last time. Back in the 1970s, I played those games until the ink wore off the cardboard counters. Afrika Korps, Russian Campaign, Third Reich, Anzio, Panzer Leader, etc. Keep It Simple Stupid - KISS.

Ah well. Perchance to dream...

pzgndr wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:42 pm I yearn for the old AH hex-based wargames to be adapted to the PC. Relatively simple OOBs, units with AF-DF-MF and maybe range, simple Terrain Effects Charts, simple Combat Results Tables, and relatively competent AI computer opponent.

I made a quick search and found Tin Soldiers series, Heroes of Stalingrad, and Heroes of Normandie. Could these be ones you're looking for?

More than hex-based, I am looking for area-impulse wargame too. Not much of these on PC.

area-impulse, like SGS Avalon Digital games? Not sure what you refer to. Like SGS Battle for Stalingrad?

Something like World at War, a World Divided.

gwgardner wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:13 am area-impulse, like SGS Avalon Digital games? Not sure what you refer to. Like SGS Battle for Stalingrad?

OK, I'll bite. What is area-impulse wargaming? I looked at some games on bgg but I need more info.

Duck Doc wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:03 pm

gwgardner wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:13 am area-impulse, like SGS Avalon Digital games? Not sure what you refer to. Like SGS Battle for Stalingrad?

OK, I'll bite. What is area-impulse wargaming? I looked at some games on bgg but I need more info.

Something with area instead of hexes. GMT's Absolute War. GG's World at War, a World Divived. Downfall of the Third Reich from Do It games..

Kuokkanen wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 am I made a quick search and found Tin Soldiers series, Heroes of Stalingrad, and Heroes of Normandie. Could these be ones you're looking for?

No. But I'm keeping an eye on BruinBearGames at https://bruinbeargames.com/?fbclid=IwAR ... fD45hR5CTQ. Simple computer hex-based wargames with AI computer opponent. I'm wondering if Blitzkrieg'41 in development may someday expand into a complete Russian Front '41-'45 wargame. Curious too if these games have an editor for modifications.

pzgndr wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:42 pm I yearn for the old AH hex-based wargames to be adapted to the PC. Relatively simple OOBs, units with AF-DF-MF and maybe range, simple Terrain Effects Charts, simple Combat Results Tables, and relatively competent AI computer opponent. And an editor, so players can make adjustments or even create a new game.

Do you know BattleTech? Simple OOB aside (unit count is about there with all Steel Panthers games combined), it has what you describe, and is regarded as "beer & pretzel" game. This one video game adaptation is a very close match to the miniature game, though not all scenarios in the books can be accurately replicated in the game for AI. I have wrote an article about it.
https://avidwargamer.com/megamek/
https://megamek.org/

bump; the last year has been very dry for old-style war games here at Matrix/Slitherine

There's not enough money in Hex-based games.
Everyone is dying to play them, are dying.

Lets be real, the original 3R (Third Reich) box game, sucked. There were only 4 turns per year. It took an opponent 30 minutes+ to do a turn. The counters fell over constantly, trying to figure out the math, move Air-Units, etc. Be honest, 3R was awful. The strategies to take Poland were simple. Send the kitchen sink, Poland goes down at 3-1 odds, but already losing an important turn. Instead, only take 2-1 odds, you rolled a "4" (means counter attack at 1-1), and Poland rolls "6", you just lost the game.

3R might have been cool in 1979 or whenever you first played it, but it wasn't playable.

Now, if you want a classic, play Victory Game's U.S. Civil War. The pulse rolling and unknown length of turn was awesome.
Best game ever, hands down. After enough time, the North could stall, saving some extra points for an exploit grab, but the bid-system could fix that.

Best board game still, is Advanced Squad Leader. You need to play someone that fits your personality, else it will turn into a Lawyer Rules game, with player's agreement to alternate possession of the ruling. The rules were unreal.

Strategy Command World At War is solid. Always needs adjustments, because players will exploit/evolve strategies.

As a developer of Hex based wargames I can tell you it takes a lot of time even for the most simple game. As pointed out there is not much money to be made from them so they are labor of love and normally done as a hobby or after the day job has finished.

Want an editor - add 2 months. PBEM another 2 months. Map editor 2 months, Competent AI - 4 months. Ability to mod the game - 3 months. Tested to the n'th degree - 3 months. And so it goes on.

We are working on a new ACW hex-based game. Likely to take 2 years to develop and the market for this type of game is small.

As usual, I am not adding anything of value here, but really appreciate the comments: Victory Games, ASL, and the time needed to develop certain features. Best wishes to all of you!

Advanced Squad Leader is the last, blast of the past. There are still some tournaments out there.

Requirement: Compatible playing opponent. Agreements on time limits, basic rules, & game flow mechanics is absolutely critical. Playing an unknown player, can turn into fist-fight or minimum vocal stress-fest; or even a new friend. There is no A.I. mode. "Sir, I have no division" -- Pickett's charge, "Sir, they're all gone, I'm the last one left" --Rambo

If you've never been to a Board game tournament, go. It's like Field of Dreams. Build it, and a bunch of old dead guys will come. Shoeless Joe Jackson, will be Toothless Joe Plummer complete with ass-crack. These dudes will declare a "smoke break" after turn #3 rally phase. Yes, it's the only place you'll meet someone who's 55+ (and still alive) and publicly nailing Lung Darts. They'll be standing, well leaning, against hotel outside entrance, saying "just minute, almost done", ash falling toke, coughing, "Hey, I forgot to fire my bow machine gun end of last defensive fire phase, okay if I roll-it? It's only on the 2 chart halved for orchard. Sorry, forgot my LOS string in my Jeffrey Dahmer '76 Cutlass Oldsmobile, be right back."

The new generation of players, are the sons of Toothless Joe. They're a real hoot, bonding over a departed amusement. The bonus, they always have all the counters in safety deposit boxes, organized, ready to go. And yes, them T-34's get their own tray compartments, protected. It's an event, watching Son, hand Dad, the footlocker of game pieces. Pulp Fiction's finest; Christopher Walken's Watch being given (and verbally described) to a young Butch (Dementia Bruce Willis) the history of those 2nd Addtion rules & homemade cellophane AP/HE to hit charts.

Press on for the mark, for the days are short,
-Elvis Jon Jones Rambo

The board wargaming hobby is going just fine, there are several publishers still producing board wargames. Compass Games, GMT, DG, MMP, Revolution Games, Worthington Games, and many many more independent game companies.

The Board Wargaming community and hobby is still very very healthy.

ASL is still the top tactical wargame system. There are many Operational wargames but some that I really like are the OCS and BCS series from The Gamers (aka MMP), and as far as Strategic games go you can take your pick from GMT, Compass or DG.

No reason to worry about yesteryear, either, currently for that I have matches in AHs TRC, SPIs B&G, SPIs NLB Quatre Bras, SPIs Leningrad, and an upcoming match of SPI's Atlantic Wall.