Matrix Games Forums

I at most was a casual war gamer until got hook by SPWAW. Could anyone suggest a tactical level game similar to SPWAW for the PC on the market right now?

There are numerous similar:

Talonsoft Campaign Series (East Front, West Front, Rising Sun)

Tigers on the Prowl II (primitive graphics but a game of outstanding depth).

Panthers in the Shadows (same as above)

Dragons in the Mist (same as above)

Sudden Strike (i just received this, so i cant compare).

If you want something similar, then I think only choice is East Front/West Front games by Talonsoft. But there are couple of good WWII tactical games in different play style. Close Combat series is awesome in small infantry unit tactical battles, and it plays in real time. I hear Combat Missions is another excellent game, and it uses "we-go" type of turns.

Anyone else know if other good games?

Im sorry to hear Panzer Captain got that "Sudden Strike" rubbish. It is total rubbish if you want something resembling realism. It works off the awful 'hit points' system and you never get to choose the units either.

Originally posted by Charles22:
Im sorry to hear Panzer Captain got that "Sudden Strike" rubbish. It is total rubbish if you want something resembling realism. It works off the awful 'hit points' system and you never get to choose the units either.

I havent even taken it out of the box yet, so i cannot comment. With SPWaW, it may never get out of the box.

the graphics in suddenstrike are great but the game is another command & Conquer. talonsoft's Campaign series approaches SPWAW the closest.

Thanks for the info.
I just ordered Europe in Flames (compilation of West Front and East Front 2) and Rising Sun Gold.
Already have the Close Combat Trilogy. Played mostly the Russian Front. Guess I am a tanker at heart |-)
Tried the demos of Combat Mission, it is great, but wasn't sure about the campaign system.
Have the hardest time find the older games on the list

The East/West Front series is good, but I could never get used to the level (multiple tanks represented by a single icon) I want the feeling of a birdseye view of the battlefield more so than the strategy map.

Close Combat is the best RTS game by far. If you like the tanks of CCIII, you will like CCIV as well (The Bulge)....and when you get sick of tanks (you can with CC) CCV goes back to the Normandy Hedgerows for some pretty good infantry battles with the token tank for support...

There is one other that is similar. Incredibly similar in fact because it is based on the Steel Panthers series as well: SPWW2. Like SPWAW, it is an excellent game.

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Securitas
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88 is a really nice number

The nice thing about the Campaign series is the huge amount of scenarios especially if you get EIF. The scripted campaigns can be quite good too.

  There's a table comparing some wargame scales at http://www.dragon-isle.net/TheBunker/wargames.html.

  I agree with the previous posters, my favorites are Combat Mission and the Campaign Series (WF, EF II, RS). I, personally, don't care for the real time games.

Hey Guys! Let's not forget Steel Panthers 2 and 3. THey are the fore runners of SPW@W By SSI. SP 2 Covers the post WW2 Period 1950 to 2000. SP3 covers both WW2 and beyond upto 2000, but covers the higher echlone stuff, Regimental level rather then company level of SP2 and SPW@W.
Both games are more then good, and what level you'd prefare is upto personal taste, but they lack the fine detail that SPW@W has, Matrix is working on a modern version of SPW@W, but that's still some time off, months rather then weeks.
But if you fancy some fighting in Korea, Nam, The Middle East, The Gulf and so on these are a must until SPM hits the line!

Combat Mission has proven to be a very good tac level infantry heavy game (though tank only battles work well too).

It is different with 21st century graphics (3D) and a very good AI.

The playing system, however, is radically different from SP series and takes a little time to grasp and appreciate.

It is a definite winner!

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Age of Rifles, in my opion had a good "feel" to it. Probably impossable or at least very hard to buy. It can be downloaded at The Under Dogs site which is in the Matrix favorite links. I haven't figure out how to get it going because of a .rar file. I can unzip it with the Winrar program but does it get it's own folder or what?

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Your mine is a terrible thing to lose.
Pack Rat

Has anyone tried "Steel Beasts"? Haven't seen it mentioned. Anyone know if it is worth laying out the money to acquire?

Bing

"Steel Beasts"?

It's a totally different matter - ultra-realistic tank simulation of modern tanks (Leo, M-1)

screenshots & order page: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/esim/

review & more screenshots: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/oct00/sbeast.html

Hope this helps ..

Arralen

Campaign series are just great. They don't show the same level of realism as SPWAW does but the tactics are just great. While SPWAW shows single soldiers and tanks Campaign series shows platoons. The terrain features and the graphics are better than SPWAW but unfortunately lacks ability to make good random battles.

Sudden Strike. What a pice of crap. Graphic outstanding....but what is that worth when the rest of the game is so unrealistic you just wanna puke.

What I love most about SPWAW was the ability to bring your core forces from green recruit to battle hardened veteran through the campaign. I know that Combat Mission don't have this in its campaign. Do anyone who played the Campaign series know if it have this capability?

Panzer Captain: Let this be a lesson to you (Sudden Strike). Don't ever buy a wargame if it's in real time, unless you've first played the demo. I've got a pretty decent stash of money I could fling at games if I wanted, but I refuse to buy a lot of things for two critical reasons (and other factors as well): 1. I don't have time to play 'everything' and unless I get in-depth into something, I don't really get to enjoy it. 2. I like to send a message by not buying junk. I'm sure the game might sell quite well, but it's an insult to call it a wargame. Fun to look at, but that's about it.

For those who love AOE, Panzer Strike, though it may be exceedingly unrealistic as AOE is, doesn't even come close to capturing some of the main facets of the RTS genre. It stinks as RTS, it stinks as a wargame. All it's about good for is something of a war movie video.

I hope you find more to it than I did, but it certainly doesn't contain practically any of the advantages of either the wargaming or RTS genres. I never take computer purchases back, but I can't think of any game I might be marginally interested in, where I would've heard such a loud call to "take it back".

The judgements are too harsh on real-time games. I am an avid wargame player and real time strategy player (as well as first person shooter gamer). The basic premise of the game is vastly different from our beloved wargames. If you take C&C and AOE type games into some consideration you will realize that realism is not an issue, it is about resource management. A game need not be realistic to be fufilling or good. The real time aspect of the game challenges players to develop effective and efficient habits. In these games tactics (as we understand the word) play a very small role, but strategy is still the overriding factor in determining victory. There is a rush of exhileration that is absent from turn based games in a real time environment when you succeed. Certainly, it is far more difficult to do when under the pressure of time, but that is part of the fun. A great deal of good judgement is necessary to know how and where to use your attention. It's a good solid challenge whos value shouldn't be dismissed.

I have also recently purchased Sudden Strike, and find it to be an excellent game. It's not realistic, but it's also not totally unrealistic either. It tries as best it can to model a variety of effects. It models front/flank/rear damage and armor, there is minelaying and obstruction creation, paratroops, capturing guns, and a crap-load of other cool stuff (and it definitely looks good).
If one puts a premium on realism then war cannot be properly portrayed without confusion. These turn based games that are so excellently crafted have very little of that. If I were from a different camp of thought I could use many similar examples to support an argument that says the turn based wargames on the market today are 'totally unrealistic'.

Don't let preconception get in the way of a good time.

Tomo