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SM-6 losing speed too quickly

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:57 am
by Abstract9
I was messing around in a scenario where a squadron of JH-7s is hunting down a Burke. I had an AWACS nearby and tried to throw SM-6s at the JH-7s before they detected me, and I noticed that the fired SM-6s were losing speed too quickly and not scoring kills despite being fired around 50-60 nmi. I realize that SAMs are supposed to have less range against agile targets, but I tested some other missiles and this seems to be a bug solely with the early SM-6 variants (Blk I, IA, Dual I, and Dual II). I tried using SM-2MR, SM-2ER, and SM-6 Blk IB instead and all yielded better results at the same or sometimes longer ranges. This could be related to a bug I saw earlier with ARH missiles. (this seems likely as the SM-2ER is similar to the SM-6 with the major difference being the guidance type, and the SM-2MR was retaining its speed at much further distances than then SM-6). I'm not fully sure though, so here is the scenario file. I am running 1328.12.

Re: SM-6 losing speed too quickly

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:50 am
by caelunshun
If you look at the DB entries and scroll to the Fuel section, you'll see the earlier SM-6 variants have 72 seconds' worth of fuel, versus the SM-6 Blk IB's 4.2 minutes. This likely explains the different kinematic performance.

The improvement in Blk IB seems to come from the addition of a second-stage rocket motor. Here's a source supporting this (bottom left page 227): https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub ... _n3g%3D%3D

I imagine the real kinematic capabilities are classified, so the fuel endurance numbers are just educated guesses. If you have a source providing more details you should submit an issue on the DB issue tracker.

Re: SM-6 losing speed too quickly

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:43 pm
by Abstract9
Sorry if I wasn't clear before, but the issue I'm finding here isn't the fuel endurance. The issue here is that post-burnout, the SM-6 is losing speed too quickly. I understand that it has less burn time in the early variants compared to the block IB. When the SM-6 is gliding post-burn, it loses speed very quickly maybe quicker than it should). not sure why this is, but given that the SM-2MR was able to score kills against the JH-7s when the SM-6s failed, I believe that the SM-6 is outright underperforming as it is supposed to be a longer range counterpart to the SM-2.

Re: SM-6 losing speed too quickly

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:20 am
by Tcao
Did a quick test, fire a SM-6 and SM-2 simultaneously at one of the JH-7 when it begins RTB.

This is at the edge of the effective engagement ring so things could be a little bit of more sensitive to target's maneuvering. a missile with higher max speed (SM-2) should be slightly better at chasing a receding target. Also SM-2 has a slightly higher apogee (3000-4000ft higher)

A table records the SM-6 and SM-2's TAS and Altitude during their dive phase

SM6 TAS SM6 Altitude SM2 TAS SM2 Altitude
005150z 2358 77094 2564 75585
005200z 2029 65629 2388 61816
005210z 1500 56734 2039 49599
005220z 1097 51801 1663 41196
005230z 824 49758 1345 36574
005240z 552 48074 1007 34244

I don't think SM6's speed bleed too fast. it is not diving fast enough, but that make sense as it will never be able to catch the JH-7 at that moment.