Matrix Games Forums

You may want to limit the build potential for AT-Rilfe TOEs since it's abusable and imbalanced when it comes to TBs.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8#p5138838

Do you have any numbers to propose? Anyone have any idea how many of these existed? I looked and in my last test game, over 310k of the rifle ground elements had been built. I see on wiki that the Soviets built 450,000 of these during the war. There are only a handful of OBs that don't have a limit, so it would be nice to get limits in for everything. I just don't have any idea what those limits should be.

Support units in the TB should “not” count towards the total or have very limited input to that total instead of what we have now. The basis should always be required X amount of Divisions at a minimum.

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:21 am Do you have any numbers to propose? Anyone have any idea how many of these existed?
[...]
There are only a handful of OBs that don't have a limit, so it would be nice to get limits in for everything. I just don't have any idea what those limits should be.

The best list which I assume should be 99% complete (I hope) is this one:
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 33_03.html
The list contains 187 entries/lines.
The last 2 lines (and some inbetween) are "fighters" (not sure what they are, maybe some AT-fighters with special equipments/training(?) ....so much to learn about the Red Army), I'd need to dig down to how the numbering system works and how/when the renames happened to pinpoint how many actually existed simultaneously (and are not just renames/rebuilds). Eyeballing I'd guess 150 would be a good number to begin with but naming exactly the "max amount in existance simultaneously" will take some time to work through that list. Maybe after some Beer I'll learn reading Russian over Christmas and this speeds all that up.

Where they were used some example of Kursk:

• You can also see them in Listings for the battle of Kursk: (see the ATR abbrevated units).
  http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/43-06-30 ... 6-gds.html
• Or here in the Nafziger Collection their further assignments to Divisions are also shown.
  https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital ... 5407/rec/1

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:21 am I looked and in my last test game, over 310k of the rifle ground elements had been built. I see on wiki that the Soviets built 450,000 of these during the war.

Yes in normal AI vs AI something like 300k gets produced. The numbers seem to vary slightly depending on sources. For Soviet stuff I like to use Russian Wiki. Here they actually go down to the last number. PTRD+PTRS combined it's like 471,726 (ignoreing the comments of not accepted/testing and so on).
This is automated translated part of the Russian Wiki PTRD and PTRS page (I highlighted the sources they used): https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... 0%B8%D1%8F
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... 0%B8%D1%8F

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:28 am Support units in the TB should “not” count towards the total or have very limited input to that total instead of what we have now. The basis should always be required X amount of Divisions at a minimum.

Yes, maybe some percentage "quota" like for Flak and other assets would be an idea,...like 25%-33% of Base or so.
But there are anywas already some "normal Units" locked to TB, so shenanigans like this couldn't be done for 100% of all TBs simultanously at least.

Here's a list of the Soviet Army Handbook.
They list an even larger ATR TOE and give some numbers of Units on certain dates. Additionally in game the ATR TOE shares the "Limit" with an AT-Battalion (14x45mm AT-Gun). I did not find this specific one so far. In game there's none of these present at game start and none spawning in from what I can see (looking at the GC41). So not sure where to find these as separate Battalions. I need a page containing all the Soviet TOEs now!

Limited the numbers as seen in the pic. So at least it can not be exploited for open TB shenanigans.
I didn't find any info on the 14x45mm AT Battalions. So eventually they never existed as a independent unit. Info of them if they ever existed is appreciated. Until then, the "Link" between the two ahs been removed.
WOTE