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Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:34 pm
by Wiedrock
EDIT: This post initially was only about Rifle Corps numbers, but attached in the second Post you can find updated build limits for Cavalry, Mechanized and Tank Corps as well.
Soviet Rifle Corps numbers are too high.
- Rifle Corps Numbers_RAH.png (72.81 KiB) Viewed 511 times
Numbers on a "max per year" scale with the Month of the highest value.
Notes:
- That page (see year-links) lists Rifle Corps and Airborne Corps sometimes combined (due to the few short lived Airborne Corps later on), I stick to the numbers the page states.
- Note that some of the Rifle Corps contained Airborne Divisions. But that's another issue.
1941
1941 is special
1942
Souce:
December 30
WITE2: Januar 41 (IRL only 6 Corps in January)
1943
Source:
December 151
WITE2: Januar 193 (IRL only 34 Corps in January)
1944
Source: Oct-Dec 174
WITE2: Januar 209 (IRL only 161 Corps in January)
1945
Source: "whole" 174
WITE2: Januar 209
As can be seen:
- caps raise too early, January early that year vs. December later that year)
- caps numbers even when if the Month would be the same are above IRL numbers overall.
My guess for those too high numbers is that:
- 1942 - Includes the Airborne Brigades (+10) but those are already present in the game separately.
- 1943 - Adding the 151 together with all other IRL Corps in December 1943 you'd only get ~196 [so all Cavalry, Mot/Mech, Tank Corps included]. So I have no idea how this number of 193 came to be, other than guessing it's the sum of ALL CORPS the Soviets had.
- 1944 - Still about 35 Corps too much. In December 45 Corps are Cav(8)/Mech(13)/Tank(24) combined, so again may hint towards some have been added together at some date that year.
Solutions:
- Change numbers
...honestly, there would be many ways to approach this.
- First of all, changing the numbers....then eventually...
- Average over the year (12months).
- Average Jan/Dec.
- Average Jan/Apr/Jul/Oct or so...(every 3 Months)
- Shifting numbers by 1 year (is hefty especially for 1942 & 1943).
- Add more change Dates.
- Make the Change in Month 6 or 7 of that year.
Re: Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:27 pm
by Wiedrock
For those wanting to mod build limits closer to reality. Added to
WOTE.
Notes:
Rifle Corps is probably the only 'serious' change. Historically numbers in 1942 changed as (Jan-Jul) 6/8/10/10/11/16/19. The 10 in January 1942 is a compromise. More build limit changes can not be added unfortunately (8dates x 4info = 32 I assume(?)).
It leaves out the spike of 17 Cavalry Corps in spring of 1942.
I have no idea how Devs came to 8 Cavalry Corps in 1941.
I have no idea how Devs came to use a high of 16 Mechanized Corps and 29 Tank Corps as a build limit. At least my sources do not indicate those numbers.
Sources used:
see initial Post.
One of the Source pages is only accessible any longer
using the web archive.
Re: Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 8:34 pm
by Denniss
Changes mande so far see below, do you have a link to the source of the table in first post? Looking for division numbers (separate, not under corps).
Code: Select all
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x OB Chain Build Limits x
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2086 Tank Corps (SU) 1943 Limit of 29 removed
2189 Mechanized Corps (SU) 1942: 10->8 Limit; 1943: 16->14 Limit
2220 Cavalry Corps (SU) 1942: 14->12 Limit; 1943: 12->10 Limit; 1944: 10->8 Limit
2275 Guards Airborne Division (SU) 1942: 19->10 Limit; 1/44->12/43 availability; 1945 cap removed
2314 Rifle Corps (SU) 1942: 41->30 Limit; 1943: 193->149 Limit; 1944: 209->169 Limit
2333 Rifle Division (SU) 1943: 8->100 Limit; 1944: 8->50 Limit
2394 Artillery Division (SU) 1942: 30->27 limit, 10->11/42 availability; 1944: 44->37 limit, 1->7/44 availability
2402 Rocket Launcher Division (SU) 1942: 5->4 Limit; 1943: 8->7 Limit
Re: Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 9:23 pm
by Wiedrock
Denniss wrote: Mon Dec 08, 2025 8:34 pm
do you have a link to the source of the table in first post?
No link, it's always about the same on the first pages in RA Handbook, Companion to the RA and all those "newly named versions" of that book.
On
this homepage (only archive is available anymore) you can also count/look up yourself for certain dates.
Re: Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 11:07 am
by Rexzapper
The complete initial table is taken from the book (as Wiedrock mentions) by Leland S. Ness and Steven J. Zaloga's
Red Army Handbook 1939-1945. Sutton Publishing, 1998. ISBN 0-7509-1740-7.
I don't have the exact number of separate divisions, although a general idea can be obtained by subtracting "approximately" those within Corps.
Re: Soviet Corps numbers
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2025 5:32 pm
by Denniss
Update
Code: Select all
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x OB Chain Build Limits x
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2086 Tank Corps 1942: 26->22; 1943: 29->24
2099 Tank Brigade 1942: 121->126; 1943: 202->108; 1944: 96->81; 1945: 64->61
2127 Anti-Tank Brigade 1943: 60->50; 1944: 67->56;1945: 79->66
2132 Heavy Tank Regiment 1942: 38->18, 1943: 56->35
2135 Separate Tank Regiment Limits added: 6/41 (4 at cost 1); 9/42 (65 at cost 0), 1/43 (87), 1/44 (72), 1/45 (40)
2141 Anti-Tank Regiment 1942: 211->176; 1943: 239->199; 1944: 196->172; 1945: 118->111
2152 Light SU Regiment 1943: 131->109; 1944: 254->212; 1945: 282->235
2161 Separate Tank Battalion 1941: 120->100; 1942: 96->80; 1945: 54->45, 1944: 8->6
2173 AT-Rifle Battalion Limits added: 1943 (48), 1944 (10)
2189 Mechanized Corps 1942: 10->8; 1943: 16->13, 1944 limit of 14 added
2202 Mechanized Brigade 1942: 31->24, 1943: 56->12 (the vast majority in Mechanized Corps, 3x per Corps)
2207 Motorized Brigade 1942: 35->7; 1943: 31->4; 1944 cap removed
2220 Cavalry Corps 1942: 14->12; 1943: 12->10; 1944: 10->8
2275 Guards Airborne Division 1942: 19->10; 1/44->12/43 Availability; 1945 cap removed
2289 Ski Brigade 1942: 58->48
2314 Rifle Corps 1942: 41->30; 1943: 193->149; 1944: 209->169
2333 Rifle Division 1943: 8->50; 1944: 8->20
2359 Rifle Brigade 1941:183->159; 1942:148->177; 1943: 118->98; 1944: 42->35; 1945: 20->17
2394 Artillery Division 1942: 30->27, 10->11/42 availability; 1944: 44->37, 1->7/44 availability
2402 Rocket Launcher Division 1942: 5->4; 1943: 8->7
2411 Howitzer Brigade 1944: 88->73; 1945: 83->69
2419 Heavy Rocket Brigade 1942: 13->11; 1944: 18->13; 1945: 13->15; 1943 Cap removed
2422 Mortar Brigade 1943: 8->11; 1944: 16->13; 1945: 10->8
2437 Gun Regiment 1941: 203->169; 1942: 388->323; 1943: 282->273; 1945: 163->144
2459 Light Rocket Regiment 1942: 109->70; 1943: 239->113; 1944: 128->108
2464 Mortar Regiment 1942: 122->102; 1943: 205->171; 1945: 180->150; 1944 Cap removed
2472 PVO AA Regiment 1941: 35->29; 1942: 91->78; 1943: 138->115; 1944: 164->137
2475 PVO AAMG Regiment 1942: 10->8; 1943: 32->27
2477 AA Regiment 1942: 148->123; 1943: 265->221; 1944: 270->225; 1945: 252->214
2482 Light Rocket Battalion 1941: 88->73; 1943: 54->59; Added: 1944 (48), 1945 (44)
2486 Mortar Battalion Add 1941 build limit of 15
2488 PVO AA Battalion 1941: 185->154; 1942: 190->158; 1943: 257->214; 1945: 245->205; 1944 Cap removed
2491 PVO AAMG Battalion 1943: 32->21; Added: 1944 (27)
2518 Flamethrower Company Made buildable; Added: 9/41 (10), 1942 (20), 6/43 (0)
x Notes regarding Build limits x
2099 Tank Brigade a large amount in Tank Corps, 3x per Corps
2203 Motorized Brigade the vast majority in Mechanized Corps, 3x per Corps
2207 Motorized Brigade the vast majority in Tank Corps, 1x per Corps