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Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:28 pm**

I am playing the complete campaign against the AI. It is 10/1/42.When I attack Wake Is.with 4 CV’s I loose many Wildcats to the Zero’s ,which I expected but the DB’s on airfield attack destroy very few planes on the ground. If I send in a BB and CA,CL task force the come in and tear the place up. Are the CV’s worthless until better fighters are available.Or should I use the CV’s differently.
Thanks

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:56 pm**

DKF12 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:28 pm I am playing the complete campaign against the AI. It is 10/1/42.When I attack Wake Is.with 4 CV’s I loose many Wildcats to the Zero’s ,which I expected but the DB’s on airfield attack destroy very few planes on the ground. If I send in a BB and CA,CL task force the come in and tear the place up. Are the CV’s worthless until better fighters are available.Or should I use the CV’s differently.
Thanks

Multiple turns of bombardments by ships are preferred. Many smaller bombardment TFs or fewer larger ones, each have their own benefits. Just bombard every turn, you can have the TF remain on station to bombard the next turn to use more ammo before returning to port to rearm.

Dive bombers will carry one bomb, Avengers will carry 2 or 4 depending upon the range. Also, dive bombers will descend into 25mm AAA range while the Avengers can fly above the 25mm AAA range.

Properly used, the Wildcats are fine. Set up sweeps and LRCAP over Wake until the airfield is heavily damaged.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:59 pm**

DKF12 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:28 pm Are the CV’s worthless until better fighters are available.Or should I use the CV’s differently.

They're certainty not worthless as they are providing some air cover at least. But I get the feeling most players hold off on invading distant atolls out of the range of land-based air until the Hellcat becomes available in numbers. Naval dive bombers tend to take heavy flak losses when attacking airfields as well.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:53 pm**

One should fly dive bombers high enough so that they level bomb, not dive bomb when attacking land targets.

If they dive bomb, they get into range of about every enemy land-based AA.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:57 pm**

Also, you should not bring your CVs into base hex, their CAP will be halved.

I nowadays use 1 hex patrol zone with reaction range. That way they can react to enemy CVs etc.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:08 pm**

DKF12 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:28 pm I am playing the complete campaign against the AI. It is 10/1/42.When I attack Wake Is.with 4 CV’s I loose many Wildcats to the Zero’s ,which I expected but the DB’s on airfield attack destroy very few planes on the ground. If I send in a BB and CA,CL task force the come in and tear the place up. Are the CV’s worthless until better fighters are available.Or should I use the CV’s differently.
Thanks

I see more damage with DB when an airfield is overstacked. Using a recon patrol will increase your DL and that often has the effect of increasing damage. Bombardment TFs are more effective when using spotters and since they are attacking at night, the aircraft are on the airfield.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:53 am**

When Bombarding with task force, don't forget to put at least one float plane on heavy ships to Recon (night) and give it that base as target. It makes bombardment way more effective.

I have not tested if multiple planes would be more effective, though. Or if you'd need spotter per ship.

Eg.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Tulagi at 114,137

Allied Ships
BB Resolution
BB Ramillies
BB Royal Sovereign
BB Revenge
CA Exeter
CA Cornwall
CA Dorsetshire
CA Canberra
CA Australia

Japanese ground losses:
525 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 37 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 19 (5 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 44
Port hits 10
Port supply hits 2

BB Resolution firing at 65th Naval Guard Unit
BB Ramillies firing at 17th Infantry Regiment
BB Royal Sovereign firing at Tulagi
Walrus II acting as spotter for BB Revenge
BB Revenge firing at Tulagi
CA Exeter firing at Tulagi
CA Cornwall firing at 17th Infantry Regiment
CA Dorsetshire firing at Tulagi
CA Canberra firing at Tulagi
CA Australia firing at Tulagi

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:24 am**

Sardaukar wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:57 pm Also, you should not bring your CVs into base hex, their CAP will be halved.
Except for the CVEs, they can operate aircraft in the base hex with no penalties.

I nowadays use 1 hex patrol zone with reaction range. That way they can react to enemy CVs etc.

For invasions, think of Spruance at the Marianas protecting the landings. Do NOT try to emulate Halsey at Leyte Gulf even though he was not getting information directly from the 7th Fleet nor even SWPAC. He was also getting messages out of sequence.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:16 am**

Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:53 am When Bombarding with task force, don't forget to put at least one float plane on heavy ships to Recon (night) and give it that base as target. It makes bombardment way more effective.

I have not tested if multiple planes would be more effective, though. Or if you'd need spotter per ship.

Eg.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Tulagi at 114,137

Allied Ships
BB Resolution
BB Ramillies
BB Royal Sovereign
BB Revenge
CA Exeter
CA Cornwall
CA Dorsetshire
CA Canberra
CA Australia

Japanese ground losses:
525 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 37 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 19 (5 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 44
Port hits 10
Port supply hits 2

BB Resolution firing at 65th Naval Guard Unit
BB Ramillies firing at 17th Infantry Regiment
BB Royal Sovereign firing at Tulagi
Walrus II acting as spotter for BB Revenge
BB Revenge firing at Tulagi
CA Exeter firing at Tulagi
CA Cornwall firing at 17th Infantry Regiment
CA Dorsetshire firing at Tulagi
CA Canberra firing at Tulagi
CA Australia firing at Tulagi

Only the one aircraft will spot for the night bombardment, but I think if the other ships also put theirs on night Recon of the base it will increase the MDL for any daytime attacks.
Note that the LAST heavy ship listed is the first to fire and the one that launches the spotter, so if you intend to get spotting from the get-go, be sure to set that one on night Recon, range 0. It doesn't matter if you set that base as target or not- the spotter will launch when the bombardment begins. Other aircraft Reconning should have a target set and appropriate range.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:18 am**

Yes, CVEs don't suffer base penalty etc.

Thus you protect your Amphibious forces with CVEs and CVs stay 1 hex away.

CVLs, since they can be put into CVE Escort TF might not suffer the penalty either, not sure.

(Don't mix CVE Escort TF with Escort TF, latter is for sending damaged ships home and such, CVE Escort TF is combat TF).

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:23 am**

BBfanboy wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:16 am

Only the one aircraft will spot for the night bombardment, but I think if the other ships also put theirs on night Recon of the base it will increase the MDL for any daytime attacks.
Note that the LAST heavy ship listed is the first to fire and the one that launches the spotter, so if you intend to get spotting from the get-go, be sure to set that one on night Recon, range 0. It doesn't matter if you set that base as target or not- the spotter will launch when the bombardment begins. Other aircraft Reconning should have a target set and appropriate range.
[/quote]

Not sure if they spot if you don't set the target.

Meaning the gunnery spotter. But good idea to have Detection Level up with others.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:37 am**

Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:18 am Yes, CVEs don't suffer base penalty etc.

Thus you protect your Amphibious forces with CVEs and CVs stay 1 hex away.

CVLs, since they can be put into CVE Escort TF might not suffer the penalty either, not sure.

(Don't mix CVE Escort TF with Escort TF, latter is for sending damaged ships home and such, CVE Escort TF is combat TF).

I think that the CVLs also have the penalty.

Posted: **Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:25 pm**

As always thanks great advice. To recap you are saying don’t bring CV task force into base hex(Wake in this case),use it as air cover for bombardment TF.I have been laying off the target 5-6 hexes.To get DB’s to level bomb what altitude should I use.Use CV’s to attack after bombardment has reduced airfield

Posted: **Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:42 pm**

DKF12 wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:25 pm As always thanks great advice. To recap you are saying don’t bring CV task force into base hex(Wake in this case),use it as air cover for bombardment TF.I have been laying off the target 5-6 hexes.To get DB’s to level bomb what altitude should I use.Use CV’s to attack after bombardment has reduced airfield

Personally, I would have the CVs at 1 or 2 hexes away from the target, 1 hex away is preferred.

Just don't have the DBs bomb from 10k to 15k in altitude. Check to see what the AA fire looks like along with the damage to your aircraft. Also, check the altitude of the 25mm AA autocannons that are land based, try to stay at least 1k above that highest altitude.

Posted: **Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:38 am**

Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:23 am
BBfanboy wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:16 am
Only the one aircraft will spot for the night bombardment, but I think if the other ships also put theirs on night Recon of the base it will increase the MDL for any daytime attacks.
Note that the LAST heavy ship listed is the first to fire and the one that launches the spotter, so if you intend to get spotting from the get-go, be sure to set that one on night Recon, range 0. It doesn't matter if you set that base as target or not- the spotter will launch when the bombardment begins. Other aircraft Reconning should have a target set and appropriate range.

Not sure if they spot if you don't set the target.

Meaning the gunnery spotter. But good idea to have Detection Level up with others.
[/quote]

Never dawned on me before but does FP recon help the actual invasion and not just bombardment mission?

Posted: **Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:20 pm**

Chris21wen wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:38 am
Sardaukar wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:23 am
BBfanboy wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:16 am
Only the one aircraft will spot for the night bombardment, but I think if the other ships also put theirs on night Recon of the base it will increase the MDL for any daytime attacks.
Note that the LAST heavy ship listed is the first to fire and the one that launches the spotter, so if you intend to get spotting from the get-go, be sure to set that one on night Recon, range 0. It doesn't matter if you set that base as target or not- the spotter will launch when the bombardment begins. Other aircraft Reconning should have a target set and appropriate range.
Not sure if they spot if you don't set the target.

Meaning the gunnery spotter. But good idea to have Detection Level up with others.

Never dawned on me before but does FP recon help the actual invasion and not just bombardment mission?
[/quote]
If you don't set the target and the range is 0, the first bombarding ship with a FP on it will give a text message saying its FP is spotting. That's good enough for me.
As far as DL goes, my understanding is that the intel is universally shared among allies, so if the navy gets info on the dispositions of enemy troops for bombardment, it would be available to allied troops landing at the base in the same 12 hour segment, or help increase the MDL for the next few segments (DL resets to 0 every 12 hours). This is somewhat unrealistic in the early war when cooperation between services and between allies was not baked in. Joint HQs and better radios helped change that.

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