Matrix Games Forums

Dear forum,

the situation:

1. Oil producing hexes in the Caucasus and
2. Sov cuts off rail to Rostov.
3. Oil starts to accumulate, which leads to the conclusion that
4. there is no sea transport of oil possible.

I could not believe it - am I wrong here?

We've seen the system transport supplies from port to port going directly into the port city. It's possible the general economic system does not ship oil by sea.

As far as I have seen in this game oil facs need a working rail connection to a fuel factory in order to move oil from location to location.
To move oil to/from pool I believe it requires a working rail connection to a national supply source.

Yes, that seems to be the case.
Supply works perfectly through the 3 ports, but oil does not go the way back.
And that is definitely a bug.

Denniss wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:16 pm As far as I have seen in this game oil facs need a working rail connection to a fuel factory in order to move oil from location to location.
To move oil to/from pool I believe it requires a working rail connection to a national supply source.

Hi
I would have to say to I find it odd the Axis didn't use tankers in some small part to ship oil.

I get it the system cant do everything we want and I believe ( in Game ) that the vast majority of oil is shipped by pipe line ( not seen in game ) which is part of the supply grid ( read it in the manual a long time ago tried to look it up again but cant find it ) however I did a quick reference check on captured merchant shipping by Germany

Yugoslavia 46 thousand tonnes
Greece 170 thousand tonnes
France 1047 thousand tonnes
Belgium 75 thousand tonnes
Holland 417 thousand tonnes
Denmark 488 thousand tonnes
Norway 951 thousand tonnes
Russia 10 thousand tonnes
Bulgaria 27 thousand tonnes

Now there had to be some Tanker ships amongst all this, the Axis had permission up until 1944 to sail merchant ships through the straits of Bosporus so captured ships from Balkan countries not to mention Italy and Romania surely must have using tankers in the Black Sea.

As for The Baltic that was just a big German lake for almost 4 years

Any way just thought I would share my view on this

Regards

The Afrika Korps ate most of the Axis tanker fleet available in the region.
I dont know if Romania/Bulgaria had lots of sea-going tanker ships, most were likely river tankers. Most of their oil/fuel products were shipped by train.

I don't think its a feature, I think its a bug.

If you can transport supplies to, then you can transport barrels from.
I would buy into the feature thesis, if there would be any shipment.
But there was 0. The hard needed oil stays in the place where its being produced.
And: there is no documentation about that, which would be there if it would be a feature.
I guess most games don't last that long with Germany still holding on to the Caucasus wells and I realized it only after my rail line was cut. Before that, I thought it would be this stupid preference of the system to take rail, when sea is available as well. I guess everybody knows that from captured Leningrad that is still being supplied by rail instead of using sea transport in absence of any soviet presence in the Baltic.

I did a short 2 mins research.

Historically there was a refinery in Berdjansk.
The game does not have that.
Berdjansk had a harbour for that and the production was actually used.

In the Caucasus the destruction of the oil wells is replicated in the game.
Historically the production was halted due to the offensive at Stalingrad.
But:
There was a refinery in Tuapse, not shown in the game, and the oil was pumped down there.
That clearly tells us, that the transport would have been done by ship.


https://opac.geologie.ac.at/wwwopacx/ww ... 40_077.pdf

Pat_ge wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:54 am I did a short 2 mins research.

Historically there was a refinery in Berdjansk.
The game does not have that.
Berdjansk had a harbour for that and the production was actually used.

In the Caucasus the destruction of the oil wells is replicated in the game.
Historically the production was halted due to the offensive at Stalingrad.
But:
There was a refinery in Tuapse, not shown in the game, and the oil was pumped down there.
That clearly tells us, that the transport would have been done by ship.


https://opac.geologie.ac.at/wwwopacx/ww ... 40_077.pdf

Both refineries are in the game. Berdjansk is not on map, but the city is next to Mariupol which does have one. Tuapse has refinery as well.

Besides that Berdjansk is two hexes away from Mariupol, the latter has not refinery either.
Tuapse has no refinery, not as symbol on the map and not in the detail window.
Both, Mariupol and Tuapse have a port, manpower and rail.

Are we talking about the same game?

Tuapse has a fuel refinery but that evacuates in 7/42

Pat_ge wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:31 pm Besides that Berdjansk is two hexes away from Mariupol, the latter has not refinery either.
Tuapse has no refinery, not as symbol on the map and not in the detail window.
Both, Mariupol and Tuapse have a port, manpower and rail.

Are we talking about the same game?

You are probably talking about some different game, this is GG WitE2. Bardjansk is not on the map but those refineries(and symbols) are.

mariopul fuel refinery evacuates in 8/41 so you may not see this if looking from an ongoing game

Denniss wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:50 pm mariopul fuel refinery evacuates in 8/41 so you may not see this if looking from an ongoing game

Did they rly "evacuate" complete Refineries? ....Soviets

to put it into context:

we are in summer 44 and I was still holding on to the caucasus.

During mud season in spring I went back to prepared positions in the north around rostov and left everything south and east of it direction south to a pocket around the retreat road towards the krim. Left in the swamps paras, in the center panzers and in the mountain/heavy woods east mountaineers.

The plan was to keep that in order to secure app. 10% of my oil production for as long as the Krim was not in danger of being cut off from the north.
This plan failed as I discovered that I kept the wells, but lost the ability of getting the oil after Sovs cut off the last rail toward Rostov.
I never played such a long game before and in the manual nothing was mentioned other than sea lanes being basically the same as land lines ...

If you're holding the Caucasus in summer 44, I assume you're going to win at the January 1st 1945 victory check given the Soviets must be low on VPs. The oil is not likely to matter in this case.

I'm playing for fun, not primarily for winning and I like this sort of historic what-if that the game offers over many features.
And as my playing partner does the same, we have a game that is not at all gamey.

So it's really about the feature/bug not at all about me being afraid to loose.

Not a bug