Matrix Games Forums

Hello all:

I have a question on supply. I realize this answer likely exists on the forum somewhere, but I have searched the forum, read the manual, and watched the YouTube tutorials, and I'm still very confused on this point, because I have found what appears to be conflicting information.

Basically my question is whether the force supply stockpile level or the supply point value is the base value for hex supply values we see in the trace tool. For example, in this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4591519

The equation is given:
Location Supply Value x FSDE x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop HQ) x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop SU) x 0.67 if moved x 0.67.

And force stockpile does not seem to come into effect.

But in the manual it says:

9.1.7.4. Variable Supply Points. Under these New Supply Rules, designers can also set supply levels for supply points (either initially or through events) to values between 1-250%-of-full. Default is 100%, of course.

Which I assume to mean the supply point value is being multiplied by the force stockpile value.

While this thread gives yet a third, different formula for calculating supply, which also does not seem to use to stockpile value:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4245749


I am really confused. How do the force stockpile value and supply point value relate to the hex supply value we see in the trace tool? All these sources appear to be saying different things which are not quite consistent.

CaptainKoloth wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:27 pm Basically my question is whether the force supply stockpile level or the supply point value is the base value for hex supply values we see in the trace tool. For example, in this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4591519

The equation is given:
Location Supply Value x FSDE x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop HQ) x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop SU) x 0.67 if moved x 0.67.

And force stockpile does not seem to come into effect.

But in the manual it says:

9.1.7.4. Variable Supply Points. Under these New Supply Rules, designers can also set supply levels for supply points (either initially or through events) to values between 1-250%-of-full. Default is 100%, of course.

Which I assume to mean the supply point value is being multiplied by the force stockpile value.

Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

The way it is derived depends upon which supply line type you are using: Old Supply or New Supply. 9.1.7.2 for Old Supply and 9.1.7.3 for New Supply.

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:32 pm

CaptainKoloth wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:27 pm Basically my question is whether the force supply stockpile level or the supply point value is the base value for hex supply values we see in the trace tool. For example, in this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4591519

The equation is given:
Location Supply Value x FSDE x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop HQ) x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop SU) x 0.67 if moved x 0.67.

And force stockpile does not seem to come into effect.

But in the manual it says:

9.1.7.4. Variable Supply Points. Under these New Supply Rules, designers can also set supply levels for supply points (either initially or through events) to values between 1-250%-of-full. Default is 100%, of course.

Which I assume to mean the supply point value is being multiplied by the force stockpile value.

Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

The way it is derived depends upon which supply line type you are using: Old Supply or New Supply. 9.1.7.2 for Old Supply and 9.1.7.3 for New Supply.

How is the variable Supply point value derived from the force supply stockpile value, and how does this relate to the number shown on the supply point counter/ set in the editor?

CaptainKoloth wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:37 pm How is the variable Supply point value derived from the force supply stockpile value, and how does this relate to the number shown on the supply point counter/ set in the editor?

Variable Supply Point value is set in the Editor by the scenario designer. The supply derived from that supply point is that value times the Force Supply Value.

So, if the Force Supply Value is 30, and the Variable Supply Point value is 100% (default), then that Supply Point radiates 30 supply. If the Variable Supply Point value is 50% then it radiates 15 supply. If the Variable Supply Point value is 200 then it radiates 60 supply, etc.

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:52 pm

CaptainKoloth wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:37 pm How is the variable Supply point value derived from the force supply stockpile value, and how does this relate to the number shown on the supply point counter/ set in the editor?

Variable Supply Point value is set in the Editor by the scenario designer. The supply derived from that supply point is that value times the Force Supply Value.

So, if the Force Supply Value is 30, and the Variable Supply Point value is 100% (default), then that Supply Point radiates 30 supply. If the Variable Supply Point value is 50% then it radiates 15 supply. If the Variable Supply Point value is 200 then it radiates 60 supply, etc.

Got it. So the number I see in the scenario on the supply point itself is the variable supply point value times the force supply value, not the number set to the variable supply point in the editor, which would be the variable supply percentage?

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:32 pm Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

I’ve always been uncertain about what the supply bubbles actually represent. Suppose I’m using New Supply rules and I select a formation. Supply bubbles appear, but do they represent the actual supply available to the formation’s units? Questions:

1. Are the supply values displayed applicable to the entire force, or to the selected formation? I would like to see a feature where I can select to whom the supply values apply; to the entire force or to just the formation I have selected.
2. Do the supply values shown include the 50% boost from cooperative HQs?
3. Do the supply values shown include the supply boost derived from cooperative supply units?

I suspect that the supply bubble values are the raw force supply values adjusted only for distance/terrain and do not include HQ or supply unit modifiers. The game engine calculates the actual supply received per unit and I would expect that value to be accessible by the player. Hope you can clear this up.

Regards, RhinoBones

rhinobones wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:21 pm

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:32 pm Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

I’ve always been uncertain about what the supply bubbles actually represent. Suppose I’m using New Supply rules and I select a formation. Supply bubbles appear, but do they represent the actual supply available to the formation’s units? Questions:

1. Are the supply values displayed applicable to the entire force, or to the selected formation? I would like to see a feature where I can select to whom the supply values apply; to the entire force or to just the formation I have selected.
2. Do the supply values shown include the 50% boost from cooperative HQs?
3. Do the supply values shown include the supply boost derived from cooperative supply units?

I suspect that the supply bubble values are the raw force supply values adjusted only for distance/terrain and do not include HQ or supply unit modifiers. The game engine calculates the actual supply received per unit and I would expect that value to be accessible by the player. Hope you can clear this up.

Regards, RhinoBones

But to further calculate this, you can separately set the supply point value and the force supply values in the editor, so it would seem to me that the supply bubble value at least on the supply point itself is not the result of a calculation.

rhinobones wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:21 pm

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:32 pm Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

I’ve always been uncertain about what the supply bubbles actually represent. Suppose I’m using New Supply rules and I select a formation. Supply bubbles appear, but do they represent the actual supply available to the formation’s units? Questions:

1. Are the supply values displayed applicable to the entire force, or to the selected formation? I would like to see a feature where I can select to whom the supply values apply; to the entire force or to just the formation I have selected.
2. Do the supply values shown include the 50% boost from cooperative HQs?
3. Do the supply values shown include the supply boost derived from cooperative supply units?

I suspect that the supply bubble values are the raw force supply values adjusted only for distance/terrain and do not include HQ or supply unit modifiers. The game engine calculates the actual supply received per unit and I would expect that value to be accessible by the player. Hope you can clear this up.

Regards, RhinoBones

Remember the supply equation from the first post:

The equation is given:
Location Supply Value x FSDE x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop HQ) x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop SU) x 0.67 if moved x 0.67.

Note that the impact of the formation, adjacent HQs & Supply Units, and movement, etc. are all applied AFTER the Location Supply Value. The Location Supply Value is therefore independent of those factors. The Location Supply Value is derived only from the Supply Value at the supply point modified by the distance from that supply point as per the supply line type selected by the players (old or new).

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:39 pm

rhinobones wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:21 pm

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:32 pm Location Supply Value is derived from the Variable Supply Point value being traced to, which is derived from the Force Supply Stockpile value.

I’ve always been uncertain about what the supply bubbles actually represent. Suppose I’m using New Supply rules and I select a formation. Supply bubbles appear, but do they represent the actual supply available to the formation’s units? Questions:

1. Are the supply values displayed applicable to the entire force, or to the selected formation? I would like to see a feature where I can select to whom the supply values apply; to the entire force or to just the formation I have selected.
2. Do the supply values shown include the 50% boost from cooperative HQs?
3. Do the supply values shown include the supply boost derived from cooperative supply units?

I suspect that the supply bubble values are the raw force supply values adjusted only for distance/terrain and do not include HQ or supply unit modifiers. The game engine calculates the actual supply received per unit and I would expect that value to be accessible by the player. Hope you can clear this up.

Regards, RhinoBones

Remember the supply equation from the first post:

The equation is given:
Location Supply Value x FSDE x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop HQ) x 1.5 (if adjacent to coop SU) x 0.67 if moved x 0.67.

Note that the impact of the formation, adjacent HQs & Supply Units, and movement, etc. are all applied AFTER the Location Supply Value. The Location Supply Value is therefore independent of those factors. The Location Supply Value is derived only from the Supply Value at the supply point modified by the distance from that supply point as per the supply line type selected by the players (old or new).

So that equation does not include force stockpile- where does it come in?

CaptainKoloth wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:42 pm So that equation does not include force stockpile- where does it come in?

Again, the Location Supply Value is directly derived from the Force Supply Stockpile via the supply line type (old or new), modified by the variable supply level of the supply point being traced to.

Curtis Lemay wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:39 pm Note that the impact of the formation, adjacent HQs & Supply Units, and movement, etc. are all applied AFTER the Location Supply Value. The Location Supply Value is therefore independent of those factors. The Location Supply Value is derived only from the Supply Value at the supply point modified by the distance from that supply point as per the supply line type selected by the players (old or new).

Thanks, confirms my suspicion. The player needs to apply a little basic math to get the actual value of supply available.

Regards

So when I set a value for a supply point in the editor, say, 75, and then see that number on the supply point in the game, what does the 75 represent?