Matrix Games Forums

Here a Thread where I'll post weird findings related to the currently used ingame Ammo Use (AU) values.

The game seems to always use the projectile weights (so what's actually flying). Therefore numbers are overall rather small compared to what real logistics had to transport (propellants/casings/storage boxes). For those interested here's a document regarding the weight of Flak 88mm Shells (see point 34 to see how crazy it can get).
Important note: I am not 100% sure if I've always picked the "correct" Ammonition type, I tried to correlate penetration charts with what's in game and chose therefore that type of ammo. The Brown marked area therefore show such special choosings, where a Assault Gun uses the HE-Shell weight instead of the weight of a Armor Piercing Shell (projectile).

I have created this sheet, it is still WIP and so far I only entered some randomly picked Tanks/SPGs/Artillery to see how things look like. Feel free to "export"/copy it and expand upon it as you like. If you find errors, let me know and I will try to fix them. Sources for the numbers are wikipedia, WT wiki and sites like this blog or this page.
That's the current state.
The red colour (positive numbers) means that this Element is using up too much freight when currently shooting in game.
The green colour (negative numbers) on the other side means that there's too little freight being consumed.
Both are listed on a per shot or per burst (1xRoF) basis.
The last Collumn gives the percentage comparison between IRL projectile and ingame projectile weight.

ALERT: The Sheet uses German formatting, so decimal "," NOT "." !
I am sry for the inconvenience, Mr. and Mrs. Fahrenheit.

Observations/Comments:

• German Tanks and Artillery seem to almost always have 10% heavier projectiles.
• ISU-122 and the IS-2 1944 issue are already reported.

Issue SOV 85mm:
Some Soviet 85mm Tank Guns seem to be using too little shell weights. Inserting the weights for 76.2mm shells makes them having the "correct" numbers, so they currently are shooting 76.5mm Projectiles instead of 85mm ones.
Affected Tanks (found so far):

• IS-1 M1943 [ID:763]
• SU-85 [ID:766]
• SU-85M [ID:830]

The weight listed here are:

Caliber: 85mm (3.35 in)
Weight of complete round: 15.87kg (35 lbs)
Weight of projectile, as fired: 9.21kg (20.3 lbs)

Other Sources also state a projectile weight of 9.2kg.
Their current Ammo Use values are calculated with the before mentioned 76.2mm shells (~6.5kg).

inspired by your findings with IS-1 and ISU-122 Jim an I worked on some ammo use updates as we found some more incorrect usages.
The 85mm users will be part of those corrections, in most cases they already used the 20/RoF.

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:07 pm The game seems to always use the projectile weights (so what's actually flying). Therefore numbers are overall rather small compared to what real logistics had to transport (propellants/casings/storage boxes). For those interested here's a document regarding the weight of Flak 88mm Shells (see point 34 to see how crazy it can get).
Important note: I am not 100% sure if I've always picked the "correct" Ammonition type, I tried to correlate penetration charts with what's in game and chose therefore that type of ammo. The Brown marked area therefore show such special choosings, where a Assault Gun uses the HE-Shell weight instead of the weight of a Armor Piercing Shell (projectile).

Good investigation.

I have a comprehensive list of what weights the Germans used for Logistics purposes somewhere. It was approx 2-2.25 the projectile weight for the artillery ammunition I checked. I expect that should rise for small calibre ammunition (>50mm) as at some point the cartridge weight/packaging starts to have a bigger impact.

Denniss wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:02 pm inspired by your findings with IS-1 and ISU-122 Jim an I worked on some ammo use updates as we found some more incorrect usages.
The 85mm users will be part of those corrections, in most cases they already used the 20/RoF.

Sounds good.
I will keep reporting "issues" I encounter here, just ignore them if you are already aware of them.

MechFO wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:31 am I have a comprehensive list of what weights the Germans used for Logistics purposes somewhere. It was approx 2-2.25 the projectile weight for the artillery ammunition I checked. I expect that should rise for small calibre ammunition (>50mm) as at some point the cartridge weight/packaging starts to have a bigger impact.

If the Devs would consider re-looking into the topic I pointed out in the other ammo related Thread I guess such numbers would be extremely valuable.

Had this in the wrong thread.

Not the list I was thinking of, but I found this first and it is actually more suited as it is the only source I know of where ammo, fuel and food/fodder listed directly comparable in the same document. Note this was for Sealion and the artillery ammo is not in standard packaging.

Weight and cubic meters for various types of ammo
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

Fuel Barrels and Food/Fodder

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6