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Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).
2. The system lacks them, 50% of total Production is MISS.
3. As noted for the SP Flak, here also no substitution at all being set while IRL you'd just have used a more basic replacement.

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1. This is what's ingame. All the German/Rumanian Mech Recons are Squads comprised of 8Men.

   

   PzRecon.png (285.89 KiB) Viewed 1387 times

   Now this is what the KSTNs look like:

   

   PzReconKSTN1.png (107.43 KiB) Viewed 1387 times

   All those using the Sdkfz 250 are 36Squad-Men Platoons with 3 Squads and 6 vehicles.
   • 1.11.1941 & 1.11.1943: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1113gp1nov41.htm
   • 1.4.1944: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1apr44.htm
   • 1.11.1944: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1nov44.htm
   • 1.7.1944 (this one is special, not the norm, using a Inf KSTN essentially as recon. Using 251 instead of 250 [251 can carry more Men]): https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1jul44.htm
   So from seeing this, I don't know how the Squad became a 8Men Squad.

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2. Here you can see that the game lacks this kind of Squad, pretty early already and it remains an issue. I don't see why one would not have replaced such a Section with another Motorized Section if one would have run out of SdKfz 250s. That exactly this took place one sees in the plenty of different TOEs units had.

   

   Mech-recon-missing.png (214.48 KiB) Viewed 1387 times

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3. Now the Question is if/how to set up an Substitution. For some reason the ID88 Mech Recon and the ID89 Ligth Infantry both fullfill the needs of "Recon"....but there are plenty of other Recon-named Squads in other categories.
   For German side it'd be the best to set a substitution to the "Mot. Recon Sections", those have 6Men Squads and are motorized, so would suit well, BUT they are Type "Motorized Infantry". So this therefore excludes them from being a Substitution or the slot would be swarmed with Mot. Infantry....sadly.
   Next Option could be the Motorcycle Squad, but there we face the issue of them being 12Men Squads. But at least they have their own "Type" and those could be used for German, RUM and SU similarly.

   

   Substitutions_reconmech.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 1387 times

I've tried using one of the old/WITW Ground types.
The Recon Jeep seemed appropriate, it's "Mech Inf" but this small 6Men Recon Squads were wither VW/"Jeeped", Motorcycled or Tracked with usage of Kettenkrads. Here one Result, RNG gave varying results ofc, but what stood out was the low usage of kar98 for the Jeep Type, other than that it worked fine, so moving those 6-Men Recons to be Jeep works just fine as a replacement for Mech Recon.

ID:425 Panzer Recon Section 42 (GER - Manpower 8→6, Load Cost 30→29, Ammo Use 11, Kar 98k -1)
ID:426 Panzer Recon Section 43 (GER - Manpower 8→6, Load Cost 28→27, Ammo Use 23, Kar 98k -2)

Applied to all TOEs, changed Support according to the list (the list uses "current" vanilla values for support, some TOEs have already been changed).

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:01 pm Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).

There were also (mittlere) Panzeraufklärungs a bit further down in your links

Panzergrenadierkompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

oder

Panzeraufklärungskompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

K.St.N.1114c (gp) (fG) (1.7.1944)

Normal Panzer Gren organisation. This is probably the m Panzeraufklärungs Kp mentioned in this KTB

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

I've certainly seen organisations that do not only consist of a leichte Kp.

MechFO wrote: Sat May 10, 2025 12:12 am

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:01 pm Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).

There were also (mittlere) Panzeraufklärungs a bit further down in your links

Panzergrenadierkompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

oder

Panzeraufklärungskompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

K.St.N.1114c (gp) (fG) (1.7.1944)

Normal Panzer Gren organisation. This is probably the m Panzeraufklärungs Kp mentioned in this KTB

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

I've certainly seen organisations that do not only consist of a leichte Kp.

The thing is,

1. that the game only uses 250s for "recons".
2. that until 1944 there seems to only have been the 250 setup being used. e.g. 1943 when they streamlined PzDiv they still only used 250s. It only pops up in 1944 from what I know/have seen so far.
3. that the 251's Squad is essentially a normal Panzergrenadier Squad. So what you would add is a regular Panzergrenadier Squad with 10Men when inside this Company, so all that'd be missing is the naming "recon".

So to me there's no reason to have 8Men from the start when the 10Men only becomes available in 1944 (at least mostly/officially).
I know there's more "issues" like that, as in using 1x12Men Panzergrenadier Squads when there's actually been 2x6Men "Sub"Squads and so on - this generally makes sense concerning how brittle those IFVs are. And it's understandable that compromises have to be made, but this specific "6 becomes 8" does not make sense to me when you can just add the proper 10Men instead by using the regular Panzergrenadier Squad.