Nuclear Torpedos and Depth Charges
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:47 am
Just played a couple of scenarios of Northern Inferno and had the opportunity to test some of the tactical nuclear depth charges and torpedos and while checking the effects in CMO, I became curious about the kill/damage radius of these warheads. Tried to enlighten myself and invested some minutes.
I just recently listened to an audiobook of an ex-skipper, claiming the T-5 Torpedo (RDS-9 warhead, CMO reports 15kt, open sources range wild from 5-15kt, known from the Cuban Missile Crisis) had a kill range of 16km.
Furthermore there is this widespread rumour among sub skippers, historians, and others real or self-declared experts that tactical nuclear torpedos such as the Mk45 ASTOR (11kt) woud have a kill probability of 2 or 200%, means sarcastic coming with a high risk to kill ownship even at max range. Some calling it a suicide weapon. For me this always sounded unlogic, why select a yield like that.
Knowing from the first hand that rumours and myths in the military spread like wildfire, being trained in (OS)INT, and received education in some basics about the involved physics, I dug deeper.
There is this single secondary source that among multiple Soviet T-5 tests, one in 1957 achieving with ~5kt detonating at "20 m (66 ft) under the surface" among "(t)hree decommissioned submarines (...) at a distance of 10.5 km (6.5 mi) (...) S-20 and S-34 sank while S-19 received critical damage" Polmar N, Moore KJ. (2004)
Sounds impressive for 5kt, however I never could locate a primary source or another mentioning. There seems to be videos of these T-5 testings, with reported yields ranging again wildly from 3-5kt but the had different dates and the surfaced subs seemed to be parked closer.
Then I found which appears to be the primary source in form of a declassified document covering the Operation WIGWAM trials specifically conducted to test deep nuclear blast effects against (sub)surface targets. They tested with a 30+kt yield which is quite big compared. If you read the abstract the effects and kill/damage range estimates are more grounded. Take into consideration that a warhead detonating more shallow might achieve more effect against surface targets.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA995030.pdf
CMO Database reports the surface effect range of the T-5(15kt) at 3nm while if I recall unreliably ASTOR(11kt) around ASW range 0,5-1nm.
Didn´t really dive deeper and there more to discover but I´m done for today. While I lack the deeper insight to have an educated opinion on this matter, for the time being I feel satisfied with the values of the CMO database.
Leaving my findings here, perhaps one finds its interesting.
I just recently listened to an audiobook of an ex-skipper, claiming the T-5 Torpedo (RDS-9 warhead, CMO reports 15kt, open sources range wild from 5-15kt, known from the Cuban Missile Crisis) had a kill range of 16km.
Furthermore there is this widespread rumour among sub skippers, historians, and others real or self-declared experts that tactical nuclear torpedos such as the Mk45 ASTOR (11kt) woud have a kill probability of 2 or 200%, means sarcastic coming with a high risk to kill ownship even at max range. Some calling it a suicide weapon. For me this always sounded unlogic, why select a yield like that.
Knowing from the first hand that rumours and myths in the military spread like wildfire, being trained in (OS)INT, and received education in some basics about the involved physics, I dug deeper.
There is this single secondary source that among multiple Soviet T-5 tests, one in 1957 achieving with ~5kt detonating at "20 m (66 ft) under the surface" among "(t)hree decommissioned submarines (...) at a distance of 10.5 km (6.5 mi) (...) S-20 and S-34 sank while S-19 received critical damage" Polmar N, Moore KJ. (2004)
Sounds impressive for 5kt, however I never could locate a primary source or another mentioning. There seems to be videos of these T-5 testings, with reported yields ranging again wildly from 3-5kt but the had different dates and the surfaced subs seemed to be parked closer.
Then I found which appears to be the primary source in form of a declassified document covering the Operation WIGWAM trials specifically conducted to test deep nuclear blast effects against (sub)surface targets. They tested with a 30+kt yield which is quite big compared. If you read the abstract the effects and kill/damage range estimates are more grounded. Take into consideration that a warhead detonating more shallow might achieve more effect against surface targets.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA995030.pdf
CMO Database reports the surface effect range of the T-5(15kt) at 3nm while if I recall unreliably ASTOR(11kt) around ASW range 0,5-1nm.
Didn´t really dive deeper and there more to discover but I´m done for today. While I lack the deeper insight to have an educated opinion on this matter, for the time being I feel satisfied with the values of the CMO database.
Leaving my findings here, perhaps one finds its interesting.