Matrix Games Forums

Hi everyone,

I want to propose a change regarding the placement of the Hi-Tech Industry within the tech tree, inspired by the adjustments made in Patch 1.21g, where Heavy Industry was moved from Tech Level 5 to Tech Level 3. I believe a similar adjustment is necessary for the Hi-Tech Industry.

Current Situation

Looking at the current tech tree (attached for reference), it’s evident that many facilities unlocked by researching lower-tier technologies require hi-tech components for construction. The attached image highlights the number of hi-tech components needed just for Level 1 facilities. For example, constructing a Heavy Industry Level 1 factory requires 4 hi-tech components.

However, many of these facilities are on much lower tiers than the Hi-Tech Industry. Even at the tier where Hi-Tech Industry itself is unlocked, we encounter five technology groups (e.g., Propulsion, Atomics) that presuppose a stable supply of hi-tech components. Additionally, constructing the very first Hi-Tech Industry factory requires 10 hi-tech components upfront.

While it’s possible to purchase hi-tech components from traders, they are often rare and expensive. For instance, in a recent PBEM game starting at Tech Level 5, I managed to purchase only about ten hi-tech components over 90 turns. Sometimes, months would pass without a single hi-tech component appearing in the market. This scarcity severely limits the economic development paths available to players, particularly on resource-scarce planets where critical resources like metals, water, oil, and food are already in short supply.

Technologies and facilities designed to mitigate these scarcities—such as Rock Dehydration Plants, Hydroponic Food Factories, and Deep Core Gas Extractors—also require hi-tech components. This creates a bottleneck that is difficult to overcome until Hi-Tech Industry is unlocked, which is positioned quite deep in the tech tree.

Proposed Changes

1. Move Hi-Tech Industry to Tech Level 3 in the Engineering group:
Similar to how Heavy Industry was adjusted, the Hi-Tech Industry could be moved to Tech Level 3. To balance this change, the output of Level 1 Hi-Tech Industry factories could be reduced. For example, instead of producing 5 components per turn, the output could be 1 or 2 components.

2. llow Artisanal Production of Hi-Tech Components in Workshops:
Similar to how machine production is available in Workshops, an option to produce hi-tech components on a smaller scale could provide a vital early-game alternative.

Why This Change Matters

Introducing one or both of these changes would significantly improve the economic development aspect of the game. It would reduce the reliance on the unpredictable availability of hi-tech components from traders and allow players to better adapt to different planetary conditions. These adjustments would open up more strategic options and make economic development a more dynamic and rewarding part of the gameplay experience.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. Do you agree that the current scarcity of hi-tech components hampers economic development, or do you see other ways to address this challenge?

Firstly, traders seem to always have hi tech. When the UI shows that traders have none available, it actually means that you don't have enough credits to buy any.

Secondly, in engineering, I only consider heavy industry to be worth building. Hydroponics probably shouldn't be available so early, it's kind of a noob trap early game since it has been nerfed. Later on hydroponics is fine, but by the time mass food pool and hydroponics robotization is around the corner, so is high tech production. I never had to use the water generating assets, even in desert worlds. I imagine that playing less aggressively it could come up as useful on arid planets, but that shouldn't come up early game (and I'm pretty wasteful, using biofuel to power power plants on arid planets). Particularly now that water wells can be extended with peripheral mining.

Thirdly, with hi tech in engineering I'm not sure how it could be powered. It requires a lot of rare metal, as well as energy in upkeep. Upkeep wouldn't even be the only issue, as I'm regularly bottlenecked by energy storage currently (until I get to power banks). I came to think, playing multiplayer, that gating hydroponics later on would be better. This is because leaving this option available early suggests its worth building when it's available, and better than the other older farming methods. It also used to be the go to farming method, so old deprecated guides will lead new players to think it's good. I would apply the same reasoning to hi tech asset.

Hi tech in engineering would be too early. Heavy industry makes sense, at the same tech level rocket launchers, as well as rocket engines can be built. There's also a constant need of machines to build basic assets like mines or farms that makes even a low level, inefficient heavy industry appealing to not rely on crafting or market.

I think generally hi tech economy currently is mostly fine. It's valuable and scarce without feeling like a major bottleneck like metal, IP or energy can be. The only thing I don't like is the fate stratagem that gives IMO too many machines and hi tech. Getting it early game really remove the scarcity feeling.

I would mostly agree with Thrake.
I do like that Hi-tech components are a slow and expensive resource to obtain that one has to carefully consider where to invest.

I would disagree with Thrake on Hydroponics though. Yes, since the nerf they are wasted where they are, but rather than moving them later I would rather move one of their buffing techs one layer up so that instead of hydroponics going from garbage to op in a handful of turns they have a more gradual growth and there is the decision of when and how much to invest in them becomes more nuanced and interersting.
And yeah, the Hi-Tech giving fate stratagem could get it's effect be halfed and still be pretty good.

I agree with Thrake, high-tech components are rare but you barely use them till late game, and for early game, you can mine or purchase what you need to set up Heavy Industry, afterwards its just a matter of money or expanding further into the ruins.

thanks for posting your thoughts. as you might imagine i like the fact its rare. and it makes some early tech harder to implement. this is intentional. However in cases where there are no or not enough artifact hexes it might indeed be neccessary gameplay wise to have another way to obtain them as the traders will eventually sell out the initial stockpile. I'll give it some thought.