Matrix Games Forums

I have searched and searched, but I can't seem to find what it takes for China to surrender. What does the Japanese player have to accomplish in order for the China to surrender?

by taking out all their bases?

I don't think they do surrender. The Japanese player must capture all of the Chinese bases to control China.

If you capture the Chinese main base and the alternate base (I can't recall the names right now), I think Chinese reinforcements start appearing in India.

Someone feel free to correct or expand on that.

Countries don't surrender in this game. There is no political authority to do that. You must make each city/base surrender and neutralize all the Chinese units outside of bases.

There is no national "surrender" mechanism in the game, the Dutch never surrender even if all of the DEI are captured. the same is true in China, but the key is to capture all the key cities so that Chinese forces can not rebuild or re-enter the game. This effectively defangs the Chinese for the remainder of the game....

dcpollay wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:46 pm I don't think they do surrender. The Japanese player must capture all of the Chinese bases to control China.

If you capture the Chinese main base and the alternate base (I can't recall the names right now), I think Chinese reinforcements start appearing in India.

Someone feel free to correct or expand on that.

I believe that surviving Chinese units that are moved across the border to India can rebuild thru replacements, but new units do not "appear" in India. The 2 bases in China where reinforcements arrive are Chungking and then Chengtu if the first is lost.....IIRC, but I usually play Japan, so I'm not 100% on that.

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 12:17 am

dcpollay wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:46 pm I don't think they do surrender. The Japanese player must capture all of the Chinese bases to control China.

If you capture the Chinese main base and the alternate base (I can't recall the names right now), I think Chinese reinforcements start appearing in India.

Someone feel free to correct or expand on that.

I believe that surviving Chinese units that are moved across the border to India can rebuild thru replacements, but new units do not "appear" in India. The 2 bases in China where reinforcements arrive are Chungking and then Chengtu if the first is lost.....IIRC, but I usually play Japan, so I'm not 100% on that.

I gave up on an AI game when 50+ units showed up at a Chinese owned base (not Chungking nor Chengtu) with no supplies nor supply production . . .

RangerJoe wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:02 am

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 12:17 am

dcpollay wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:46 pm I don't think they do surrender. The Japanese player must capture all of the Chinese bases to control China.

If you capture the Chinese main base and the alternate base (I can't recall the names right now), I think Chinese reinforcements start appearing in India.

Someone feel free to correct or expand on that.

I believe that surviving Chinese units that are moved across the border to India can rebuild thru replacements, but new units do not "appear" in India. The 2 bases in China where reinforcements arrive are Chungking and then Chengtu if the first is lost.....IIRC, but I usually play Japan, so I'm not 100% on that.

I gave up on an AI game when 50+ units showed up at a Chinese owned base (not Chungking nor Chengtu) with no supplies nor supply production . . .

I'm describing PBEM or F2F only, AI games do some strange things....sci fi in nature.......

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 am

RangerJoe wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:02 am

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 12:17 am
I believe that surviving Chinese units that are moved across the border to India can rebuild thru replacements, but new units do not "appear" in India. The 2 bases in China where reinforcements arrive are Chungking and then Chengtu if the first is lost.....IIRC, but I usually play Japan, so I'm not 100% on that.

I gave up on an AI game when 50+ units showed up at a Chinese owned base (not Chungking nor Chengtu) with no supplies nor supply production . . .

I'm describing PBEM or F2F only, AI games do some strange things....sci fi in nature.......

This was also a beta version that I was testing . . .

RangerJoe wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:02 am

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 12:17 am

dcpollay wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:46 pm I don't think they do surrender. The Japanese player must capture all of the Chinese bases to control China.

If you capture the Chinese main base and the alternate base (I can't recall the names right now), I think Chinese reinforcements start appearing in India.

Someone feel free to correct or expand on that.

I believe that surviving Chinese units that are moved across the border to India can rebuild thru replacements, but new units do not "appear" in India. The 2 bases in China where reinforcements arrive are Chungking and then Chengtu if the first is lost.....IIRC, but I usually play Japan, so I'm not 100% on that.

I gave up on an AI game when 50+ units showed up at a Chinese owned base (not Chungking nor Chengtu) with no supplies nor supply production . . .

After Chengtu and Chungking, any base with potential airfield + port size of 10+ can spawn Chinese units. This includes Wenchou and two of the cities to its southwest that the Japanese own. Sometimes the AI will use units in the mountainous pocket to capture these if you have not sufficiently garrisoned them.

[/quote]

After Chengtu and Chungking, any base with potential airfield + port size of 10+ can spawn Chinese units. This includes Wenchou and two of the cities to its southwest that the Japanese own. Sometimes the AI will use units in the mountainous pocket to capture these if you have not sufficiently garrisoned them.
[/quote]
What is your source for this information?

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:11 pm

ishtarin wrote:
After Chengtu and Chungking, any base with potential airfield + port size of 10+ can spawn Chinese units. This includes Wenchou and two of the cities to its southwest that the Japanese own. Sometimes the AI will use units in the mountainous pocket to capture these if you have not sufficiently garrisoned them.

What is your source for this information?

Agreed. Ishtarin: Source?

dr.hal wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:11 pm What is your source for this information?

I recall reading it somewhere on the forums, but that was four years ago and I cannot find it anymore. I can provide you with this after running a few turns on an old save, along with the advice that Amoy and Foochow could benefit from a slight excess of the recommended garrison numbers.


EDIT: After a few more turns, it seems to be an AI mechanic given that running the turns as the allied player did not trigger more respawns.

I appreciate you trying to support your text. Thanks. Ports of size 10 do have special properties as I recall, including ship withdrawal, but I simple don't recall anything that corresponds to your input. Alfred could help here but alas he remains silent!

dr.hal wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:35 am I appreciate you trying to support your text. Thanks. Ports of size 10 do have special properties as I recall, including ship withdrawal, but I simple don't recall anything that corresponds to your input. Alfred could help here but alas he remains silent!

I found the source. Apparently it only requires size 4 rather than 10 as I believed.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... p?t=359863

ishtarin wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 4:06 am

dr.hal wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:35 am I appreciate you trying to support your text. Thanks. Ports of size 10 do have special properties as I recall, including ship withdrawal, but I simple don't recall anything that corresponds to your input. Alfred could help here but alas he remains silent!

I found the source. Apparently it only requires size 4 rather than 10 as I believed.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... p?t=359863

Ahhh! An AI game... ok, I can believe that, but if you read the above I was talking only about PBEM or f2f games. An AI opponent does really crazy things so I never consider it.... again thanks for digging it up, most posters wouldn't bother...

My current AI game does NOT confirm this at all.

Jul 1, 1943 allies 2 more AI turns: July 3, 1943 allies. ChungKing and ChengTu were taken sometime in Aug 1942 ... these units have been in allied queue since then ... the full queue is like +10 pages long ...

Anyway, I have never goten around to finishing CHI off completely. They still own WenChow (5/5), but the AI is not putting any units onto the map. So ....

Oh my!!! I hate to think what my current opponent's reinforcement list looks like, I captured all of China by late '42. and it's now late '43!

dr.hal wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:14 pm Oh my!!! I hate to think what my current opponent's reinforcement list looks like, I captured all of China by late '42. and it's now late '43!

Remember,, every CHI unit you kill comes back in 30-60 days. If you DON'T kill CHI units B4 you take CK/CT, then all of the units you then kill stay in the queue ... you only have to kill them once.

New units after '42 are only about 1 page long, dribbling in through '45.

Oh, and this is my mod, the allied forces are based upon an Insane Ironman that Andy posted for only about 3 hours before he took it down. I suspect that the CHI forces were increased along with everything else, so a stock list may be shorter ...