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Save attached to this post:

After installing the latest CSP, I've restarted a scenario I was recently playing, Operation Scarlet Lance, 1966.

In the save point I attached, my assets have detected 3x surfaced soviet submarines (already marked hostile). Since they are early SSGs/SSGNs, they would need to surface to fire.

However, when I previously played this scenario before Build 1527, my airborne ASW Shackeltons (Starlight 1 & 2) assigned to the ASW patrol had no issue engaging and quickly sinking the subs on the surface.

Now, it's a struggle to get them to engage the submarines. I achieved limited success by assigning Any Submarines to the targeting priority, but it doesn't always seem to work.

Since the submarines are on the surface (they were detected at 0 depth with airborne radar), could the AI be mistaking these contacts as Surface contacts and therefore ignoring them?

I loaded another scenario (Those Who Hunt Goblins, 1973) and the ASW search aircraft did not seem to have any issues engaging subsurface contacts that are actually underwater.

UPDATE: Enabling certain settings for the Message log gave me the following message that seems to be the issue. Still investigating:

Starlight #1 (Shackleton MR.3) is dropping GOBLIN #411 from its target list (Reason: No suitable available weaponry).

The aircraft has ASW Torpedoes and depth charges, as well as guns


UPDATE 2: It seems that WRA is not working correctly in this case, as Manual attack states that Automatic Fire is not possible with the ASW weapons in question even though both the Side and Mission WRA seem to correctly allow using 1x weapon per salvo against submarines.
I was able to get the aircraft to engage and sink the submarine on the surface by manually flying it over the contact at the right weapons release altitude, and once engaged, that seemed to override the wrong WRA logic.

Additionally, in the scenario, I just detected a submerged submarine, and the aircraft selected and engaged the target with no issue, so this is an issue with submarines on the surface.

As I said in OP, I think there may be an issue with WRA logic incorrectly identifying a surfaced submarine as a surface contact and therefore cannot be engaged with ASW weapons.

Thanks for the report.

Logged 0016455

You're welcome.

I don't think it should affect gameplay too much until a fix is issued, I was able to press on with the scenario by manually directing my two Shackeltons to blast those surfaced SSGNs. I think it would primarily be an issue for finishing off damaged subs that blow their ballast tanks, as well as in some older timeframe scenarios like the one I encountered this in.

I just hope a fix can be issued soon after the Holidays.

Another update:

I was able to resume my save, and I picked up another surfaced submarine contact. Since my carrier was closer, I decided to try and take it out with bomb-armed Skyhawks, only to discover that I couldn't engage with the bombs.

That wasn't the issue, but I discovered that my ASW aircraft automatically started to go after this surfaced submarine once it's type was visually identified after the Skyhawks overflew it.

Bottom line, this issue this thread is about might only apply to unclassified Goblin contacts.

I put together a scenario to test different types of Cold-War ear A/C loadouts against a surface submarine.

From what I can tell as of 1527:

It seems that a surfaced unclassified Goblin contact "counts" as NEITHER a submarine nor a surface ship, so neither anti-surface ship nor ASW weapons can be assigned against it for an Auto Engage.

A classified surfaced submarine contact seems to "count" as ONLY a submarine, so that ASW weapons can be assigned against it but NOT anti-surface ship weapons.

For weapons with an anti-surface ship capability, there is a WRA setting for 'Ship-Surfaced Submarine'. So ideally, that WRA setting should be followed, but this is currently not the case.

I think it's a matter of debate whether ASW weapons (especially older systems) should be useful against surfaced submarines. I could see it either way- and it might depend of the particular system.

Found it. Even though the WRA was correctly allowing for attacking the surfaced sub, the anti-surface weapons themsevles were "failing" the "is this weapon nominally capable against this target type?" evaluation.

Fixed for the next update.

I ran into a similar issue with Dutch Convoy in the North Atlantic, 1963. I detected a submarine at 0 feet but could not attack it as none of my weapons (torpedoes) were suitable. I sank it when it dived. But there is at least one other sub present but invisible in the middle of the convoy that is shooting and sinking my ships. Flying ASW ac over the area shows nothing and no targets appear in the manual attack screen, neither does active sonar show any submerged subs. If you run the scenario at 1:1 speed, you can see a surface contact appear momentarily and then disappear, and as you can see by the msg log, I've identified upwards of 70 surface contacts, but none are visible anywhere on the screen and therefore I cannot attack it (them).

A saved file is attached.

Hmm, I'm getting a HTTP Error message trying to attach the file. I've tried both .zip and 7z compression but get the same message. I'll post a save if I can get it to attach.

Dimitris wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:01 am Found it. Even though the WRA was correctly allowing for attacking the surfaced sub, the anti-surface weapons themsevles were "failing" the "is this weapon nominally capable against this target type?" evaluation.

Fixed for the next update.

Excellent! Can't wait!

I think this bug has resurfaced at some point. Tried boogabooga scen in B1892, and the Avenger armed with anti-surface weapons will not attack automatically the surfaced sub.

The anti-sub weapons work.

I did not record a video but it is in the logs, in the ACs that are armed with anti-subs weapons and also with anti-surface weapons, the anti-surface work. In the video above, the Avenger is only armed with anti-surface weapons and cannot attack.

15-Jun-65 12:58:08 - 20mm Hispano Mk5 x 2 Burst [50 rnds] HIT: Has impacted PL-633 Romeo, The explosion also affected PL-633 Romeo.

15-Jun-65 12:23:03 - 12.7mm/50 MG x 2 Burst [100 rnds] HIT: Has impacted PL-633 Romeo.

And at the same time in the same unit, this line, cannot attack without reason given.

15-Jun-65 12:23:07 - [BlueFor] The Unit TBM-3S-2 Avenger (Torp+HVAR) cannot fire against PL-633 Romeo #2 with weapon 12.7mm/50 MG x 2 Burst [100 rnds]. REASON:

Re-fixed for the next update.