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Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:45 am
by Returner
Please! Please! Add an option to manually define every single variable of Planet Generation!
Let me explain:
I really enjoy this game. However I really prefer a realistic experience comparable to conditions on Earth, with all seasonal effects and different climate zones, deserts, lush regions, cold regions etc. ...
Creating such a planet via random planet generation is almost impossible. When I want to start a new game, I usually spend at least an hour, trying to achieve my preferred environment.
So in short: Why do you force every player to go through the ordeal of this Lottery at the start of the game? If someone wants to play on an inhospitable piece of molten rock teeming with silicoid supermonsters or a lifeless asteroid or just on plain and simple planet earth... then why for gods sake you dont just let people choose their preferred conditions manually.
Additionally, why is there no map editor? I would really enjoy playing on actually existing regions of Earth on various scales.
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:44 pm
by mroyer
Additionally, why is there no map editor? I would really enjoy playing on actually existing regions of Earth on various scales.
A long time ago, out of curiosity, I created this by hand (it's not a real SE map, just an image):
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &p=5044954
Add an option to manually define every single variable of Planet Generation!
It would be an attractive option - maybe having a type of world where you get sliders to set the value of each planetary property or some such. I'm guessing it isn't that easy to do, perhaps due to complex, behind-the-scenes interactions, maybe.
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:25 pm
by Returner
mroyer wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:44 pm maybe having a type of world where you get sliders to set the value of each planetary property or some such. I'm guessing it isn't that easy to do, perhaps due to complex, behind-the-scenes interactions, maybe.
Maybe it is not necessary to edit every single little value. Just give an option to select an Earth like planet with the standard 4x parameters like: size of landmass(es), overall climate, etc. ...
What I am getting at is the following: The complex nature of Shadow Empire allows for really engaging military campaigns and the research system makes the combat really thrilling.
I had games were I entreched myself with large numbers of very inferior infantry, holding a vital logistical route on a very long north-south running frontline. Over time I managed to close the gap technologically towards the invader and developed the economical advantage, which resulted directly from holding that specific frontline. After a long and exciting struggle I could finally go onto the offensive and take the battle to the opponents land.
What I would really enjoy is, if in those kinds of very cool games, the weather and the seasons would play a much more significant role. Only in very rare cases I had some weather effects close to the poles, where it would periodically freeze over.
Creating a planet with the Generator however, on which weather and seasons are pronounced and impactful appears to me like an impossible thing to do.
Another aspect I would love to see in the game, if different climate zones on the same planet could generate interesting rivalries and challenges for specific resources: Like a desert dwelling nation with lots of oil and metal could try to invade more fertile lands and vice versa, like it kinda works in real life aswell.
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:48 pm
by Magirot
I'd love more planet generation options. I can't answer for Vic, but I'd assume it comes down to UI design (the effort to create acceptable interface for increased options) and the fact that giving players more ways to screw themselves over often makes them blame the game for it and like the game less. And the game already has a lot of ways to do that.
In case you or someone else is interested, currently modding could be used to reduce some of the randomness. These are the options in the random planet generation table (id 506):
Code: Select all
Name
Surface Water Maximum
Planet Illustration
Description
Tectonic Plate Count
Maximum Mountain Height
Highest Mountain
Deepest Sea Floor
Surface Water
Average Water Per Hex
Initial Plains LT
Initial Low Mountains LT
Initial High Mountains LT
Initial Marsh LT
Initial Sea LT
Spectral Class
PlanetSize
Average Temperature
Heavy Elements
Planet Age
Planet Mass
Planet Gravity
Planet Core Activity
Evolutionary Time Span
Magnetic Field
Atmospheric Pressure
Planet Radius
Width in hex
Height in hex
Albedo
Greenhouse Effect
Solar Radiation
Distance From Sun
Planetary Spin
Axial Tilt
Orbital Eccentricity
Orbital Period
Wind Speed
Rainfall
Small River
Medium River
Large River
Extra Large River
Ideal Land Zone Size
Ideal Sea Zone Size
Escape Velocity
Human Lifeform ID
Xeno Biology Compatibility Level
Atmosphere Compatibility level
Alien Life Present
Plant Level
FoundationYear
DissolutionYear
CurrentYear
ColonyCapitolZoneID
Planet (col) name
backup temp
Terran Plant Lifeform ID
Lake SFType
Earth Plant Life
Disabled
Never Water
Planet Class
Glacier LT
Escarpment RT
Canyon RT
Volcanoes
Lava lake/river
Magma Modifier
Only Lakes Allowed
Max Lake Size
Lack of Water in Atmos Lvl
Solvent Type
Respiration Type
Life Type
Runaway Modifier
Abiogenesis Modifier
Terran Compatible
Minimum Plant Level
Major Regime Zone Pop
Max Human Players
Max Empire Size
Planet Setup Size
History1
History2
History20
DLC # required
Swamp modifier
VP Score %
Maximum Plant Level
Tectonic Plate Count Mod
Block DLC Oceans
Oceans obligatory
Planet Class CAT
Sea Temp Diffusion Reducer
Average Salinity
Lowest Salinity
Highest Salinity
33% chance extra tectonics
A lot of them are unused. Sadly I think they're undocumented, though most are self-explanatory. For example, the Gaia class, the most Earth-like planet class, has these modifiers set:
Code: Select all
Description Gaia Class
Name Gaia Class
Surface Water Maximum 50@80
Planet Illustration planet8.png
Description Earth-like Planets with sizeable Oceans. Planets within this class can be quite diverse, but their key characteristic is that they are compatible (or close to compatible) with Earth-based lifeforms.
Maximum Mountain Height 1000@12000
Spectral Class 30@70
PlanetSize 50@150
Average Temperature -5@40
Heavy Elements 98@102
Planet Age 2400@6400
Planetary Spin 50@150
Axial Tilt 0@40
Orbital Eccentricity 0@100
Orbital Period 4@8
Small River 3
Medium River 2
Large River 1
Extra Large River 0
Ideal Land Zone Size 100
Ideal Sea Zone Size 200
Human Lifeform ID 1
Terran Plant Lifeform ID 2
Lake SFType 1
Disabled 0
Never Water 0
Glacier LT 1
Escarpment RT 1
Canyon RT 1
Volcanoes 1
Lava lake/river 0
Magma Modifier 0
Only Lakes Allowed 0
Max Lake Size 200
Runaway Modifier 50@150
Abiogenesis Modifier 25@75
Terran Compatible 1
Major Regime Zone Pop 600@900
Max Human Players 4
Max Empire Size 3
DLC # required 2
Tectonic Plate Count Mod 200
Oceans obligatory 1
Planet Class CAT 3
33% chance extra tectonics 600
By setting things like surface water maximum, planet size, average temperature, orbital period/eccentricity, axial tilt, planetary spin, planet age to non-random ranges (
i.e. instead of temperature range -5@40, have it be 15@15), one could reduce the randomness and try to find points where seasons have the most effect.
Here is a base mod library for editing the Gaia values (col# 8), for example. Usage:
- Save the file to Shadow Empire\shadowscenarios
(on Steam, Steam\SteamApps\common\Shadow Empire\shadowscenarios)
- Go to S&S Editor in the main menu
- Load the modlib
- Go to Tables -> 24) Modify existing table
- Edit whatever values you wish
- Save the modlib
- Go to modlib picker in the main menu
- Select customplanetclass (tick "Use this Mod Library")
- Start a new game with the "Custom class" (that I renamed Gaia to, change to whatever you want)
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:59 pm
by Vasquez
+1
I really hopes to get manually planet Generation with one of the next updates.
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:40 am
by Returner
Magirot wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:48 pm
In case you or someone else is interested, currently modding could be used to reduce some of the randomness. These are the options in the random planet generation table (id 506):
Thank you for the extensive reply and modding tips. I will see if I can try out this approach and report back!
Re: Why is planet Generation all Random?
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:27 pm
by Magirot
Also
here's a modlib for editing Limos instead of Gaia, for those who don't have the Oceania DLC.