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German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:24 pm
by Wiedrock
German 8cm Mortar production is missing quite a few.
GrW34_ingame.jpg
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A current weekly production of 190 leads to 38570 being produced until end of war ~turn 203.
The starting Pool+inUnits is 10127.

EDIT: As Denniss pointed out, there are HT-Mortars.
Those are:
- Start/Spawn+Pool: 36InUnits+20Pool
- production: 238[251/2]+764[250/7]+600[251/2D]=1602 (not going to dig in that further)
Note that some of those should actually be 120mm Mortars but let's stick with the 80mm for now.

As can be seen in the following the number was 12218 on 1st July 1941. The thousands of polish, french, yugoslav, czech ... are not included in this number I suppose. So the game already starts with too little. But let's don't focus too much on that since it gets dwarfed by the production figures missing.

Using quartermaster reports I get slightly different numbers than LdW.
1941 is slightly ~300 larger then reported by them.
1942 matches almost perfectly.
1943 they included the 8cm GrW 42 (short variant) - matches perfectly when done so
1944 some production happened in Italy, my calculation is 25041.
1945 I have no figures except January (being 1553), so LdWs number it is.
TOTALS: 61585 which over 203 turns means 303.37 Build Limit.
If we now substract the 1602 HT-Mortars we get 59983 which over 203 turns means 295.48/turn.
Now this figure is ignoring exports, we'll come to that in the following.
GrW34_production.jpg
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EXPORTS:
As by MechFO reported 1400 were exported to Bulgaria. Those Bulgarian exports are also mentioned in the Quartermaster reports of 1943 as a note about "200 monthly".
Further Exports need to be investigated but looking through Quartermaster reports it seems to be not all that much, being generous it's 150/month for ~100turns →~"-35" = 3500 (and what basically already includes the Bulgarian exports (but all exports just VERY LOOSELY eyeballed so far!)), even if it's 10k, this would still leave 10k+ missing.

The current production is 190/turn, which leads to (until end of war) 203turns*190/turn=38570being produced.
Taking the calculated 59983-38570=21413 missing.
If we're now lazy and remove 1400 Bulgarians and simply additional 3600 exports (see this post to see this guessing is about alright) we'd get:
59983-1400-3600-38570=16413 missing
This would still give additional 80.85/turn (on top of the current 190/turn).

So unless I am missing some info on large scale, like exports to HUN/ITA/ROM ...or whatever....the game is missing many, many 80mm Mortars.
Not saying that they'd be "needed", since they build up in Pools as all the other Artillery in the long run (this rly could need some attention!), but the numbers need to be higher nonetheless.

SUMMARY:
Build Limit needs to be increased from 190/turn→+80.85/turn=270,85/turn
...unless someone now wants to figure out all the exports (which are non-BUL).

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:09 pm
by Denniss
you need to substract at least the 251/2 and 250/7 mortar carriers

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:57 pm
by Wiedrock
Denniss wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:09 pm you need to substract at least the 251/2 and 250/7 mortar carriers
Good catch, added/included it to the initial calculation for production SdKfz 250/7 + 251/2 + 251/2D which are all using 8cm Mortars.

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:12 pm
by Wiedrock
More specifics on the EXPORTS:
Again I have listed things according to Date of the report, so as an example, the 03/1944 figure is the figure of the report published in March 1944 but actually containing the figures for February!!!
- 1942 there is only the highlighted 208 as a possible export listed (not definitive). And further guessed 150 for December (contained in the 1943/01 figure, as mentioned before shifted by 1 Month, ...this is such braindamage :lol: )
- 1943+1944 the Reports I have at hand (missing 01/1943, 01/1944 and 01/1945 [which would contain the actual 12/1944 figures]).
So the eyeballed 150/month wasn't too far off. As said, the figure contains BUL exports of 1400, so my initial 1400+3600 is pretty generous regarding exports (known). I have no info on 1945, assumign another 225 in December and futher 200/month in Januar-April 1945 would give 1025 extra, then the 208 in 1942 would give 1233 - which may all be covered by my surplus in the initial calculation.

Looking more into all of this for several types of equipment, I rly wonder where all those exports went. I know some is Italy, some Croatia but the majority I'd guess being Hungary.

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:49 pm
by Wiedrock
Found the December production (but only January, 1553, so LdW number stays for 1945).
3950 in December, that's how LdW' number is so high (but most likely still too high) with this figure my 1944 calculation is 25041. Will include that in the initial calculation.

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:33 pm
by Wiedrock
JUST AS A SIDENOTE:
...since this amy be better suited in the appropriate Thread on captured Equipment.
(Source: BArch RH 2/2101)

EDITED/corrected numbers (accidentially added 50mm into the figure - the moments you know you'd better go sleep :D ).
Something further to be aware off is the Soviet 80mm mortars in German service.
According to this early 1945 report about 3999 were in total ever put into service with the whole Wehrmacht (if I interpret this correctly).
Additionaly there were ~700 in Pools awaiting repairs.

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 10:24 pm
by Denniss
4866 is the total for 82mm mortar variants. I assume these are all guns going through the books AKA the oficial way. I further assume especially in 1941 many were not reported at all or lost without having been reported

Re: German 80mm Mortar production

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2025 5:13 am
by Wiedrock
Denniss wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 10:24 pm 4866 is the total for 82mm mortar variants.
Doh, corrected my figures, being tired and having charts without proper lines does its part... :)

...but now I also understand (I guess) why the 80mm production was supposed to produce a few dozen carriages additional monthly.