Matrix Games Forums

Hi guys,

Twenty-one years ago, the old War in the Pacific was released. I purchased it when it came out just as I was deploying to the Balkans with the National Guard for a year. I learned the game in isolation; no contact with the forum since it was a gaming site and the military frowned on (and blocked) that sort of thing.

When I came home and rejoined the forum, I was contacted by tc464 (Ted) who was working on a program to manage the Allied intel. He asked me if I would be interested if playing a game with him so he could test out his program. Thus began our first game of WitP. We restarted when patch 2 came out. When AE came out, we started once again. In early 2011, both of our jobs got very busy and the game fell apart. We restarted once again at the end of 2011 (see Once Again into the Breach) and got to January 1944 before we both got pretty burned out. We tried to resume the game a few times, but it never worked out and the game ended 3 years ago.

We kept in communication over the years, but there was no talk of starting/continuing WitP. At that time, I was already retired, but Ted was still working. He retired in 2023 and had his retirement home finished last year. Now, we both have some free time to ponder this infernal game.

A happy birthday email a couple weeks ago to Ted with a single line saying I got the itch to play and was going to start the Ironman scenario solitaire and wanted to start on 8 Dec. The reply surprised me. He had just gotten back into the game and was playing DaBigBabes-C, Scenario 29, which starts on 8 Dec. He had only gotten 3 turns in. Then he asked me if I was interested in a game. So it begins, again.

Anyway, I've decided to do an AAR here, but I've already deviated from my norm. I've spent the last week getting the turn ready to go and just sent it off to Ted this afternoon. No, there won't be 30+ pages of AAR before the game starts.

I'll go through everything I've done to prepare so we all can do our litany of good natured arguing over the best way to do everything.

Totally signed up for this one!!!

Here we go. Keep in mind that we're playing DaBigBabes-C, scenario 29, which begins on 8 Dec 41. So, I start with a couple of battered merchant ships, but nothing spectacular. I did take some losses to KBs daitai, especially the Vals.

I'll start with the merchant shipping, which is very different from vanilla:

xAPs: We begin with 51 of many various flavors. their speeds average 17-23 kts, totaling 123k troop capacity. Last game, I said I wouldn't use them in combat, but use them to transfer units between large bases. That was a mistake. They're critical for invasions, especially after the first 6 months of the war. I plan on using them extensively until I'm finished with my expansion. After that, they'll transport units forward and be used if there are any large, planned invasions that need to be accomplished later in the war.

For the xAKs, here is an explanation of the state:

Class (# of starting hulls) (endurance, speed, troop capacity, cargo capacity, fuel capacity, tonnage)

xAK Yusen-S (10) (11,000, 14, 340, 4367, 0, 6840): They will be primarily used in the -t conversion (1430 troop). Their mission is to transport troops between large ports.

xAK Lima (46) (11,400, 326, 4192, 0, 6475): Nine will convert to AKV and 9 will convert to AKE). The remaining 28 will be used sparingly in relatively safe areas to move resources, but I want to preserve them to replace lost AKVs and AKEs.

xAK Yusen-N (57) (13,000, 15, 308, 4083, 200, 6400): I'll keep these in the xAK configuration to move resources/oil primarily between big ports. There are a lot of them, but at 6400 tons, they take up a lot of port space.

xAK Yusen-A (7) (13,040, 17, 321, 4313, 200, 6825): Because of their high speed, I'll probably convert them to AKs (385 troop, 3882 cargo) to use to drop troops off more quickly than xAKs.

xAK Kyushu (32) (9770, 16, 290, 3704, 200, 5935): In vanilla they had a ridiculous 18 kt speed, but now it's still a respectable 16 kts. With a healthy 32 of them, they will be a prime mover of resources/oil or supply/fuel. They still work best in larger ports. 8 of them with an escort will nicely fit in a size 5 port.

xAK Aden (185) (9400, 12, 246, 3195, 0, 4875): There are a BUNCH of this class. They're the workhorse of the haulers. Unfortunately, they're pretty slow. They'll be plying the sealants.

xAK Toho (53) (8900, 14, 214, 2412, 0, 3675): I LOVED these guys in vanilla. I converted all of them to the -t, but I can't do that in this mod. They are pretty nice at 14 kts but they're just cargo ships now. *sigh* Guess I'll use them to haul supply to the main bases near the front lines.

xAK Husimi (25) (10,800, 14, 232, 3024, 4675): I plan on converting 7 to AS to add to the 5 I start with and will convert 10 to AR to add to the 2 I start with. The remaining 8 will be saved as replacements for the conversions.

xAK Akasi (57) (9860, 12, 200, 2567, 0, 3675): I will convert 8 to AD to add to the 4 I start with. The rest will be expended behind the front line. 12 knot speed. *sigh*

xAK Ehime (58) (9560, 12, 185, 2446, 3425): I start with 12 AG. The Ehime class will replace any that I need. Other than that, they are just another generic cargo ship.

xAK Std-C (17) (58800, 12, 160, 2054, 0, 2900): These will sit in port and convert to at TK in June 42.

xAK Ansyu-C (54) (6130, 14, 160, 2054, 0, 2980): I will convert all of them to a PB. There are currently 52 starting as PBs, so that'll bring the total to 106. I really like them. They are amazing fast transports with a capacity of 1000 cargo. They also make decent escorts. They're ablative armor, really, but they often survive some damage. As fast transports, I usually use them in pairs. They can fly in, dump 2k supply, and get out before dawn.

xAK Gozan (58) (6190, 10, 121, 1621, 0, 2375): This is the smallest of the xAK classes. Their slow speed (10 kts) is, in my opinion, countered by their low tonnage (2375 tons). This allows them to be used in small ports. What use are they? *shrug* I'll figure it out.

xAKL Miyati (59) (2630, 10, 106, 1387, 0, 2050): In my vanilla game, I used most or all of this class to move resources from the small islands south of the Philippines. I doubt I'll do that this time. It used a fair amount of fuel and my resources in Japan were through the roof in Japan. I think I will probably use them in the front line to move supply.

xAKL Kasu-D (45) (3050, 12, 118, 1181, 0, 1900): These are my favorite xAKL class because of they are "blessed" with being small and having a 12 kt speed. This game, I'll use them in the front line to move supply and maybe small units. I expect life on these ships to be exciting and short.

xAKL Daigen (68) (2360, 10, 82, 1074, 0, 1650): I don't see these ships being particularly useful. They are pretty small. I anticipate using them in the SRA after it is liberated to move small quantities of troops and supplies around when needed.

xAKL Kiso-E (77) (1890, 213, 11, 0, 530, 0, 830): In addition to these 77 xAKLs, there are 31 that start as PBs. I plan on converting all of the Kisos to PBs. They're not very good but their 11 knot speed will allow them to be ablative armor to the multitude of 10 knot cargo ships.

xAKL To'su (37) (1700, 10, 0, 139, 0, 215): In addition to the xAKLs, there are 34 PB, 28 AMc and 18 ACM. Note that the PB have a 12 knot speed. I'm going to convert most or all of them to PB. They're small and utterly useless, but are good ablative armor.

New Classes in DaBigBabes:

xAKL Kujira (9) (4900, 12, 0, 184, 0, 300): There are 25 of these that are AMc. At first, I was planning on converting the remaining 9 to AMc, but I may convert them to a 12 kt PB. We'll see.

xAKL Ku'dai (31) (1200, 10, 0, 82, 0, 140): These guys can't do anything but haul small amounts of cargo. No idea what I'll do with them, but I'll think of something.

xAKL Ha'chi (8) (1200, 10, 0, 103, 0, 160): I converted them to AMc to match the 8 that begin the game as AMc.

Hi Pax! I'm hoping to hear from you a lot. I'm rusty. It's really good to be back!

This will be interesting!

Good luck!

Sardaukar, I hope it's interesting. That's the goal!

Next up, the land war:

I usually spend a month or more preparing the first turn. I wanted to get the turn back to Ted before that because we're both going on vacation next week (sheer coincidence). We'll both have computers so we can do turns, but I wanted Ted to have time to do his first turn. At any rate, I did an abbreviated first turn. Some things I skipped that weren't absolutely necessary. I'm working on them and making notes to do over the next couple of turns.

So, in the land war, I allocated armies to missions:

14 Army - Mission is to liberate the main Philippines Island

48 Division - will invade from the north
16 Division - will invade from the south
65 Brigade - will invade Baler, the base due east of Cabanatuan
4 Tank Regiment
7 Tank Regiment
5x Artillery units
2x Independent Engineer Regiments
A few battalion sized infantry units

The timeline for this invasion is to be complete within 6 months. I'm in no hurry here. Eventually, they will be reinforced by the 6x artillery units that are currently marching on Hong Kong with 38 Division. I anticipate the Allied forces to withdraw into Bataan. I hope to trash/destroy as many units as possible before Bataan needs to be invested. Then I'll batter them into submission with 11 artillery units.

After this mission is complete, 14 Army will be the primary garrison for the Philippines with some units allocated out to guard other strategic bases in the SRA.

15 Army - Initial Burma invasion force

33 Division - currently in Nagasaki, Japan. Gathering xAPs to transport to Bangkok then head north.
55 Division (-144 IR) - beginning the crawl north
1x Artillery regiment

This invasion is a slow process with few units initially. Once Singapore is liberated (25 Army, see below), about 3x divisions and 3x artillery regiments will reinforce 15 Army.

16 Army - Invasion of Mindanao

38 Division - Available after the liberation of Hong Kong
2 Division - In Japan. Will take about 10 days to reach Mindanao
146 IR/56 Division - Will invade Oroquieta
II/81 Naval Guard - Will invade Dumanquilas
2 Tank Regiment
8 Tank Regiment

The reason I'm invading those two bases is because it will cut off Zamboanga (with 20 Light Industry (LI)) from the rest of Mindanao. They will have no access to any supply other than what they have stocked. 2 & 38 Divisions are the real power of this army, but the 146 IR will advance to start burning enemy supply.

Why am I keen on attacking Mindanao? Simple. The US B-17s are stationed here and if I can take Cagayan with its level 4 airbase, the B-17s will be forced to rebase near or in Java. I want them rendered ineffective so I can take the oil fields without fear of enemy bombing of them.

After this campaign is complete, the 146 IR will be reassigned to 25 Army and will be sent to Malaya to be reunited with its parent organization (56 Division).

After the completion of the liberation of Mindanao, 16 Army will invade Java from the SE. Whether or not I take Tarakan and Balikpapan will depend on how well I've neutralized the B-17s.

25 Army - Liberation of Malaya

Imperial Guards Division - Will invade Malaya from the north after railing to Singoa or Kota Bharu and invade down the east side of Malaya
5 Division - Landing at Singora and will liberate down the west side of Malaya
18 Division - Landing at Kota Bear and will liberate down the east side of Malaya
56 Division (-146 IR) - Will rail as far as possible and liberate down the west side of Malaya
41 IR/30 Division - Will probably be the Singapore garrison until something more suitable is found
1 Tank Regiment - Support the invasion then move to Burma
6 Tank Regiment - Support the invasion then move to Burma
14 Tank Regiment - Support the invasion then move to Burma
6x Artillery units - Very important in the siege of Singapore
3x Independent Engineer Regiments - Very important in the siege of Singapore

The 41 IR is an elite unit, so I will likely use something else to garrison Singapore and use it for invasions in the SRA. The two other IRs of 30 Division are in Manchuoko and will be bought out eventually. The recon, arty and engineers for 30 Division don't arrive for 549 days.

Most (maybe all) of 25 Army is destined for Burma. I may use a couple of divisions and the armor and artillery for Java first.

Southern Area Army

4 Division - In Osaka, gathering xAPs to transport to the SRA
21 Division - In Shanghai, moving Chinese Army units to replace as garrisons and gathering xAPs to transport to SRA
21 Independent Mixed Brigade - will invade China from west
124 IR/31 Division - Sinkawang invasion
4 Independent Mixed Regiment - will invade China from west
41 Guards Battalion - 40 point garrison unit
1 Raiding Regiment (parachute troops) - moving west by air

The 4 and 21 Divisions are destined for liberating Palembang. I don't want Ted to be able to form a huge garrison there. They may be reinforced with the 25 Army tank regiments. Those tank regiments will not be a part of the siege of Singapore.

The 21 IMB and 4 IMR will invade China from the west. This is an important operation that will be discussed when I talk about China later.

The 124 IR is invading Singkawang and will land on 9 Dec along with some air support (AS) units. This base is critical. I will station Zeros there to begin the air interdiction of Singapore. I want to erode the RAF as quickly as possible. I want to increase that airfield from level 3 to 4 as soon as possible and base the 22 Air Flotilla HQ there along with some Nells/Betties with torpedoes. This will isolate Singapore from the air and sea. 3 Air Division has a lot of AS with the ground combat forces and will allow the air units to move into Malaya as it is liberated. The fighters and 1E bombers will be able to use level 2 airfields and the 2E bombers will be stationed at the level 4 airfields. The 3 Air Division fighters will be the main effort in the reduction of the RAF from the air.

That's all for now. Much more later...

Question for the group about DaBigBabes: Is the aircraft upgrade path the same as vanilla?

Mike Solli wrote: Thu Jun 12, 2025 6:42 pm Question for the group about DaBigBabes: Is the aircraft upgrade path the same as vanilla?

Trying to find the download site to answer that, amoung other, questions. I haven't played this is over a decade ...
(I need a quick refresher on it ...)

I haven't played it -ever-, Pax. Already ran the first turn and got it back to Ted. It's interesting starting on 8 Dec. It's much quieter than starting on the 7th. I also don't really know what losses look like. I suspect Arizona and Oklahoma are gone, but not sure about anything else at Pearl and no clue about PoW and Repulse.

8 Dec 41

Malaya

I took Kota Bharu easily with a shock attack, destroying the crappy BF there. The other 2 units, also crappy, withdrew. I screwed up, sort of. Parts of 5 and 18 Divisions landed there. They'll run down the rail line to try and catch the remnants and destroy them. I wanted to land only 18 Division there and 5 Division at Singora so I could combine them earlier, but the 5 Division artillery ended up at Kota Bharu. Not really an issue since both divisions have elements on ships several days out.

I see that Ted is pulling out of Kuantan so, I'm diverting the remainder of 18 Division there (2x infantry regiments and a couple of independent engineer regiments). They will arrive in 3-4 days. Also, the 6 Tank Regiment is headed to Kuantan and will arrive in 2 days. My BB TF will cover them, along with a line of subs to the south. This is a bit of a risk since I have no idea if Force Z was hit on the 7th or not. But, my 2 BBs will be there and a whole bunch of Nellies are on naval attack too.

Up in Singora, the 5 Division (minus their artillery which I dumped at Kota Bharu) and 1 Tank Regiment are mostly landed and are heading to Alor Star, which is also being evacuated by Ted.

The air fighting here was mixed. They won the air battles taking out 3 Oscar Ias and an Oscar Ib (2 KIA, 1 WIA, 1 MIA) to 1 Buffalo and a Blenheim fighter. I did get lucky. I think Ted forgot to move his planes at Kota Bharu, so I destroyed a Buffalo, 5 Vildebeests and 10 Hudsons on the ground. Other than catching the planes on the ground, not so hot really. The Nates did better than the Oscars!

A fair number of RAF bombers went after the TFs at Singora damaging a couple of cargo ships. They're probably not in danger of sinking, but I disbanded them in port for the time being.

I did lose a Gozan class cargo ship, but that was from damage incurred on 7 Dec. That ship is doomed from the start of the game.

Philippines

I landed some troops and AS at Laoag, which they'll take tomorrow. That will be a fighter base initially, with some 1E bombers later when more AS arrives. Troops are scheduled to land around the island over the next few days.

In the air, it was a lackluster day here too, with a Zero lost (1 KIA) to a P40B and 3 P26s.

Singkawang

There was a lot of enemy air action here today. As I said in an earlier post, this base is essential to me. I want to station Zeros (and Netties when the airbase is built up to level 4) so I'm willing to take some losses to get the troops ashore. I was able to land an infantry battalion and a Naval Guard (NG). The infantry will shock attack tomorrow and the NG will pursue. Some AS will arrive in 3 days. In all, an APD and 2 xAKs were damaged and another xAK was sunk. The APD is doomed, but the other ships should make it assuming no further damage. The ship damage was well worth the successful landing.

Enemy Ship Clean-up

So begins the clean-up of the enemy shipping all over the place. In all, 5 xAKs and 6 xAKLs were sunk by ships and planes and the DD Scout took a couple of shells from two Japanese DDs. Also, AV Langley and AS Otis each took a torpedo, but neither is in danger of sinking (I don't think).

China

Forces are shifting around, but I did take Pengu. No real excitement here.

Other Places

The Wake and Guam invasions are enroute. An infantry regiment is headed to Guam and an SNLF & NG are headed to Wake. The Wake force will wait for KB to arrive. There are 4x CAs escorting the Guam force.

There's not much else to speak of for the day.

I had no sightings of Houston, Boise or any other warships.

Mike Solli wrote: Thu Jun 12, 2025 7:52 pm I haven't played it -ever-, Pax. Already ran the first turn and got it back to Ted. It's interesting starting on 8 Dec. It's much quieter than starting on the 7th. I also don't really know what losses look like. I suspect Arizona and Oklahoma are gone, but not sure about anything else at Pearl and no clue about PoW and Repulse.

Got the D/L from wayback. OK, so extended map (good), full DBB, and 30% cut in cargo capacity. Brother, you have your work cut out for you.

Biggest thing: all of your convoys will need to be 30% bigger ... so sharpen your pencil on your xAK management; when you used to use 5 Aden, now you need to allocate 7 Aden. I think you still have enough xAK without building more, BUT, you will need to really manage them better. Plays to your strengths. Roll those spreadsheets!!!!

Ted has the same challenges. Allies just lost 30% of their tanker fleet on Dec 7 ...

Watching with great interest ...

PDU ON?

Yes, PDU on.

Yes, movement of troops and resources is definitely very different. In our last game, I had a lot of merchant ships that were sitting in port by Jan 44. I doubt that will be the case this time around.

Mike Solli wrote: Thu Jun 12, 2025 6:42 pm Question for the group about DaBigBabes: Is the aircraft upgrade path the same as vanilla?

I have a suggestion. Go to the intelligence screen, click on your aircraft replacement and production, then select each type (F, DB, TB, and so on) of aircraft. Check which engines are used for the aircraft and what airframe upgrades to what airframe. Maybe even, if you know how, put that into a spreadsheet so you can use it to select your research priorities. Then you will see just what engines that you will need to build. In Scenario 1 for example, the Tojo uses a certain engine. In Scenario 2, the engine is different. I don't know about the mod that you are using but this system works for any mod.

You know the aircraft, you can decide which ones to research and how many research facilities are needed. Then decide on the engines that you need to research and just how many factories that you need. Then you can also decide on the game that you want to play for your production of aircraft. I mean, are you in for a longer game or are you going to try for a quick victory?

That's it, Joe! I knew there was a way to figure out the upgrade paths but for the life of me, I couldn't remember! Now I can figure out what to do.

Thank you!

Mike Solli wrote: Sat Jun 14, 2025 12:04 pm That's it, Joe! I knew there was a way to figure out the upgrade paths but for the life of me, I couldn't remember! Now I can figure out what to do.

Thank you!

You are most welcome!

What's the first sign of old age?
I don't remember!

What is the sign of middle age?
When a broad mind and a narrow waist trade places!

Mike Solli wrote: Thu Jun 12, 2025 6:42 pm Question for the group about DaBigBabes: Is the aircraft upgrade path the same as vanilla?

Have you gotten tracker v1.11 yet? You REALLY want to. Way improved over what you remember. And yes, based on a quick look, the upgrade paths were not disturbed.

However, JWE (before he left) did a MAJOR update on just about every device and aircraft. Basically, he harmonized the input data so that the game display equated as close to reality as possible. I can't remember everything that changed, but I know that now I just focus on George/Frank/Sam. I don't research A6M at all, just take the upgrades as they arrive. In fact, I hardly research anything anymore except George/Frank/Sam. I want George early '43, Frank mid '43, and Sam early/mid '44. Everything else, I just take as they arrive pretty much. Oh, and Grace. I do RnD Grace. That's it though.

I got the 9 Dec turn back to Ted. We're each trying for a 24-48 hour turn around, which is good for us. I still have things to do, including accelerating ships and air R&D. I'll post the turn soon.

Still working on the R&D plan. For engines, I have 6x Ha-45 and 5x Ha-43.

Obvious choices (# factories) for planes:

Sam (18)
George (18)
Frank (18)
Grace (6)

Some considerations:
Tojo (5)
Jill (6)
Zero (6)

My plan for the air forces is as follows:

IJAAF: Obviously land based and the primary defense force throughout the Pacific. They're blessed with a large training force in Manchuoko, and a nice finishing force (but small) in China. Burma is a nice place to to get the pilots up to 70/70 (air/defense) and then stock them away for the 43 & later battles in the Pacific.

IJNAF: The 12 Air Flotilla (to start) will train up the pilots, but it's going to be awhile before they get more units to ramp up training to a level that is needed now. The carrier pilots' mission is to sink enemy shipping. Only in rare instances will I use them against land targets, such as Wake in a couple of days. The land based force will also be used mainly against shipping, but I will train some Nellies only for land targets. The Nells are also wonderful air search platforms.

Tojo: The Oscar has range but plain sucks. I've had real success with the Tojo. I'm putting a few R&D factories to expedite the Tojo because I want the IJAAF fighter pilots to survive so they can gain valuable experience.

Jill: It's a nice torpedo bomber to have until Grace comes along. I like the range coupled with the A6M3a as an escort.

Zero: I'm doing this mainly to get the A6M3a for its long range and the A6M5c, which is armored. I need my carrier planes to survive.

A plane that survives combat is one that won't have to be replaced nor another pilot trained.

A plane that survives combat but is written off is one that has hopefully saved the trained pilot so that is also a good thing.

Very much agree, Joe.

9 Dec 41

So, I'm having a problem with this infernal game. I'll tell it to load troops on an invasion fleet and plug in its destination. It CONSTANTLY partly loads the unit(s) then sends it on its merry way to invade. It's really slowing down my invasion plans. I'm now setting the TF to do not unload and tell it to load the units. When the loading is complete, I'll send it on its way. Pain in the ass.

Malaya

Just about every Allied unit in Malaya is headed south. Singapore is going to be bursting with troops pretty soon. The surviving troops I kicked out of Kota Bharu are sitting 1 hex to the SW as a speed bump. Also, the troops in Georgetown are staying put. I'll invest that with a regiment and bomb them into the Stone Age. Intel says there are 25 fighters there and another 47 in Singapore.

It was a decent day in the air. A buffalo and a few Blenheim fighters were shot down, along with a few bombers. Interestingly, 2 Seagulls were operational losses. That implies a cruiser went down. It might be just coincidence. I haven't hit a cruiser yet.

Kota Bharu has half the 18 Division + an additional infantry regiment and the 5 Division artillery regiment. They're all trundling down the road to run over the remnants that were ousted.

The rest of 18 Division will land at Kuantan in 2 days. Tomorrow, 6 Tank Regiment will land there. A BB TF will be there tomorrow to support the landing.

Philippines

Laoag has been liberated and a sentai of Nates along with a few Vals are there. Troops are landing at San Fernando tomorrow. This is one of the places where I've had partial units loading and leaving. Pretty frustrating. One more P40B was shot down. Not sure what his fighters are doing. Intel says there are 57 of them scattered around the air bases in Luzon.

The 65 Bde is scheduled to land at Baler (1 hex west of Cabanatuan) in 2 days. That should shake up Ted a bit. There are more forces scheduled to land in the southern peninsula over the next few days.

Continued bombing of the airfields left a dozen P-40Es damaged, along with some other odds and ends.

Singkawang

Well good news and bad news, mostly bad. Good news is that I got I/124 Infantry Battalion and 91 NG completely landed. I tried something sneaky that didn't work out. I had the infantry shock attack with the 91 NG in pursuit. The shock attack beat up the Dutch taking only a few disabled squads. I'm doing a shock attack tomorrow with both units. That should work. Today's attack was 2:1 with 1 fort, and the fort was reduced. The invasion fleet was still there unloading more supply. They were pummeled by CL Mauritius, which did little, then DD Jupiter, which sank 3 xAKs and 3 xAKLs. The remains of the TF (not much) fled.

Other Stuff

Something (probably an xAKL) hit a mine laid by I-124.

The DD Scout ran into Takao harbor and was driven off by a TF composed of 6 DMS and 3 PB. They drove her off hitting her with 8 shells leaving her heavily damaged and burning fiercely.

The APD Aoi (damaged yesterday), succumbed to her wounds.

I-154 caught, torpedoed and sunk an xAKL.

The Hong Kong assault force arrived and will do a deliberate assault (DA) tomorrow to test the waters.