Matrix Games Forums

Was this thing really as bad as indicated in SP??
in the last few email games i've played the soviet gun cannot penetrate even m4 shermans or the open turreted wolverines, from hull down, close range, long range, any range!! this goes for the t34s, kv 1 as well as the AT guns.
also barely takes out greyhounds (but can be destroyed by the 50 cal from greyhound!!) is it me or is this gun really dumbed down in this game?? (H2H version)

Hmm it might be more than just the 76mm.... how does it fare against Panzers in your opinion?

I just think the Wolverine in particular and also the Sherman to some degree is "toughened" in SP. The M10 is just insanely hard to kill short of a direct hit with high velocity guns - it should be possible to kill with a 20mm! I have yet to achieve this. :rolleyes:

Then again, the 76mm is not a good gun. The T-34/76 was obsolete by 1943. Wait for the Zis-3 which is one of, if not the best, WWII AT gun in its' caliber range.

Weeell...none of the Soviet 76,2mm guns is a powerhouse...we are talking about 70-90mm penetrations without apcr (in 8.0). That is quite a lot of less than western guns of similar calibre. I believe this is due to the problems Soviets had with their ammo quality.

M10 *is* a rather thick skinned vehicle actually. With soviet 76,2's you don't have that much overhead even from a point blank range..add the distance and some slope/angle and suddendly your odds are quite bad.

Voriax

Voriax wrote:M10 *is* a rather thick skinned vehicle actually. With soviet 76,2's you don't have that much overhead even from a point blank range..add the distance and some slope/angle and suddendly your odds are quite bad.

Voriax

The M10 hull is OK (seeing as it's a Sherman hull...), but the turret is way too tough, IME. I have 75mm regularly bounce off it - and it's not even armored, right?

(he he he we're on a pet peeve of mine here - the Überwolverines )

It's not that flimsy: http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/fm10.htm

gun shield 57mm, turret sides 25mm

Voriax

i think tanks are generally more tough in H2H, german ones especially ( IMHO ).

but i can you give more info on the performance of the 76mm in some
time as i´m playing right now a sov (me) vs. ger PBM..

Voriax wrote:It's not that flimsy: http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/fm10.htm

gun shield 57mm, turret sides 25mm

Voriax

19mm turret top armor?! I thought the M10 was open topped. :rolleyes:

And *hmpf* 25mm should not be a problem for anyone in '43...

Belisarius wrote:19mm turret top armor?! I thought the M10 was open topped. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's the turret *bottom* armour

Voriax

Voriax wrote:Maybe it's the turret *bottom* armour

Voriax

Hehe wonder where that is? :p

I have a bad habit of comparing the Kill numbers of SPWAW with Advanced Squad Leader (ASL). The numbers have always been consitent in ASL and to the best of my knowledge the T-34 with the 76mm gun had bad penetration numbers. It got better when the barrel lenght increased but not much. The big difference is when using special AP rounds at close range. The closer the better. Is there anyone else out there who uses their experience with the penetration tables from ASL to make decision when playing SPWAW? I do.