Matrix Games Forums

I’d like to share some thoughts and data based on my recent experience in several missions attacking large commercial tankers (approximately 75,000 tons and 3,440 damage points).
Each tanker has 3,440 damage points (DP) in the simulator.
(#339 - Commercial Tanker - Large Range 1 [75,000t DWT])
The Mk48 Mod 4 torpedo deals approximately 270 DP per direct hit.
(#1618 - Mk48 Mod 4)
This means that, according to the simulator’s damage model, it would take about 13 direct hits to sink a single tanker.
Is this realistic?
From a purely simulated perspective, yes, but in practical and real-world terms, this number seems excessively high. In reality:
The Mk48 Mod 4 has a powerful warhead (~295 kg of explosive) designed to sink large ships with one or two well-placed hits.
Tankers, although large and robust, are not armored or designed to withstand internal explosions, so a critical hit can cause fires, secondary explosions, and rapid loss of buoyancy.
Therefore, in real life, one or two Mk48 torpedoes are usually sufficient to sink a large tanker.
The CMO damage points system is a simplified model that tries to balance gameplay and realism, but it doesn’t fully reflect the complexity of real-world naval combat damage. This can lead to requiring a much higher number of hits to sink large targets, which adds tactical challenge and “realism” to the simulation. In fact, I’ve needed about eight hits just to inflict significant, non-repairable damage to a tanker.
Do you think these 3,440 DP are set correctly?
Thanks for your opinions!

All I have seen in real life is a supertanker hit two mines during the Iran-Iraq war and all that did was superficial damage and the ship continued on its way. That's a 500 lb warhead on a very heavily compartmentalize ship. In the incident above the ship took on a negligible amount of water. In CMO a typical floating mine does 250-300 points in damage. Whether 13 hits is realistic, I find it plausible. In real life, I would think where it hits is pretty pertinent.

Also keep in mind a big factor in CMO is time. At a certain point of damage, there is a steady increase in flotation damage that will eventually sink a ship. So after six torpedo hits, that same supertanker might sink after 24 hours. Just an example pulled out of my rear end.

The houthis sink a few ships in the last year, maybe that info could shed some light. 13 seems a lot for a tanker, but we need some data to say for sure.

Some available RL data points:

* During the 1980s Tanker Wars, large tankers were repeatedly used as sacrificial "minesweepers", clearing a path through minefields brute-force, absorbing multiple under-keel mine impacts and still surviving.

* The Soviet Navy developed the 650mm torpedoes (450/557 kg warhead) specifically as a more efficient weapon when attacking large vessels, both military (aircraft carriers, battleships etc.) and commercial (large tankers & merchantmen)

* There haven't been many live-fire exercises involving very large vessels (carriers etc.), but from the few we have observed, they typically take a lot of beating (incl. torpedo hits) before they go down.

thewood1 makes a very important point on flooding. A torpedo (or mine) detonation may cause some immediate damage, but the flooding effect inflicted may well kill the vessel after some time (RL example: Shinano, Taiho).

Also:

Each tanker has 3,440 damage points (DP) in the simulator.
(#339 - Commercial Tanker - Large Range 1 [75,000t DWT])
The Mk48 Mod 4 torpedo deals approximately 270 DP per direct hit.
(#1618 - Mk48 Mod 4)
This means that, according to the simulator’s damage model, it would take about 13 direct hits to sink a single tanker.

That's not how it works. For underwater detonations we use the "shock factor" formula, an empirical method for estimating the damage applied from underwater shock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_factor

This makes the relative positioning of the warhead and the vessel critical, and that's something you are unlikely to know in advance, so it may be futile to try to precisely calculate how many torpedoes you will need for a given target. It may be better to develop a "gut feel" after some repeated plays. (The QBG may be very useful here, for quick repeatable setups)

Full LNG tankers and similar explosive types are the types uniquely fragile. Other liquid tankers can be very resilient due to their nature; they often fill their tanks with seawater to maintain ballast, so they have the pumps (and expertise) to handle flooding. Wood/Dimitris are correct as well. You have to look at the total event (hit, fire, and flood) rather than judging by when the ship disappears.

IIRC Tanker War by Allen Zatarain has a good deal on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/Tanker-War-Ameri ... 193203384X

Mike

75,000 tons is a baby tanker. The current biggest tanker is 657,000 tons! Basically, they dwarf all naval construction and the largest cruise ships. Also, keep in mind that modern tankers are double hulled and heavily compartmentalized. The tanker disasters in the 70s and 80s led to big changes the regulations that governments put on them. I can easily imagine many hits being required to sink even a small one. However, even one would probably take it out of service, so from a strategic perspective it's still a "win".